Your ideas for FIS Flight School

[:FI:Genosse]

Folks!

In my latest poll I asked you is there´s in interest within the squad for having a FIS Flight School. There were at least ten squaddies who liked to participate on some virtual flight lessons.

Now I´d like to ask you all for your ideas for this project. I hope there´ll be a lot of realizable contributions ...

Notice!
The FIS Flight School is for FIS members run by FIS members. First of all it´s meant to be voluntary for everyone: for the students as well as for the instructors. Every squaddy is welcomed to take part on it.

Let´s bring it on, folks!

[:FI:Genosse]

Sounds good.

I've mentioned to a few M8s about starting evening combat training sessions. Still to flesh out the details but perhaps this could be one part of your more general flight training idea Frank.

Initial ideas are around 1v1 combat fights. If enough are interested, after some training 2 people fight and the others watch with comments from combatants and those watching after.

The more experienced pilots at dogfighting can pass on tips and advice about the merge and how to manouvre on to your opponents six. Also how to get him off yours . Although I often get my arse handed to me I'd be more than happy to pass on what little I know.

There are plenty other things to try that would help our basic dogfighting skills but to start with 1v1's are probally the best way to see rapid improvements.

Later on maybe 2v2, 2v1 and BnZ practice (and how to defend against it) and maybe Ace AI practice as this is a bit different from human v human stuff.

On behalf of :FI:Gadje

[:FI:Mikester]

Hi Gen

I would like to see dog fight training, and would also like to play a part in the training. Dog fighting & 1 v 1's is really my main interest at the moment. I like to take part in co-op's and sometimes even a little bomb run ) But I tend to stick with what im kinda good at! Once im a bit older ill slide into the bomber seat i think!!


Maybe you could take turns at different training aspects. on a wed for example you could do bomber training, then the next again wed someone else could do dogtraining, then maybe team work the next ? ?

at the end of the month put it all togeather in a co-op/dogfight/bombing/teamwork mission of somekind!! lol

?? not sure really but just throwing some ideas in.

Also I spoke to you before abou trying to capture some video and placing this on the site, Its easier to learn or see your mistakes by watching re-play. Would maybe need to get some kind of video compression though, these recordings take up so much room..

Mikester.
I

[:FI:Moog]

I'd like to try some 1-v-1s in the same model and mark of aircraft and have an opponent talk me through each and every decision they make whilst I do the same. Every little nuance, all the tips (even those closely guarded secrets!!), expertise on particular ships with advice on speed ranges etc. If I'm out-turned I'd like to know how and why, and what action I can take to make sure it doesn't happen again. If I manage to shake somebody from my 6, I'd like to hear feedback about how it looked from their cockpit and why they broke off. If I lose a wing as opposed to having my engine catch fire, I'd like to know if they were deliberately aiming for a part of my plane due to the engagement angle or if they just shot and hoped...

The B'n'Z-ers can take a rain check - you guys don't have the guts for a down 'n' dirty dogfight, do ye? That said, I'd be interested to hear some opinions on altitudes, entry, dive and engagement speeds, pull-out angles, the whole nine yards. I've been playing this game for nigh on three years now and I still get my ass handed to me on a regular basis.

All things considered however, I'm handy enough in the fighter-bomber and medium bomber roles and would be glad to help others with regard to ground attack using glide and dive bombing, rockets, toys like parafrags and cluster bombs, A-to-G gunnery, torpedos, skip bombing, and level bombing on all bombsights.

See you soon in flight school!

[:FI:Noter]

Still not sure if I will be able to attend with the time differences, but I would like to see some formation flying tips, tacitcal turns and how to translate formation flying into tactical dogfighitng as a team. Snoop gave us a great start with the loose deuce formation training.

Also like Moog's suggestion about getting every bit of info from the other guy, at what point did he know he had me vs when I thought he had me. Those little bits of info that can make all the difference, but everyone assumes you know so they gloss over it.

Like to here from Nightcat with his experiences with the JO, what he liked from their sessions and would be good to implement with us.

Noter

[:FI:Mikester]

well sorry to say Noter but formation flying from what ive seen, just makes you a easier target. What would you find harder to shoot, someone flying side by side or 2 people split apart ?

If you have 2 people flying side by side you can keep your eyes fixed on them.

2 split up and work togeather you are a gonner for sure.

Im sure it looks nice but I dont believe its very effective.

Working on dogfighting skills and team work and self awareness would be first on my list, once i've mastered them I wouldn't mind giving formation flying a go.

[:FI:Moog]

I'll volunteer to share my formation flying skills too. Spent plenty of time honing them offline with the AI and I usually try to stay glued to one of the FI's wings for practice online whenever there aren't bad guys around.

If you haven't already got one, get a TrackIR; it makes formation flying much much easier. Instead of the leader issuing heading/power/rad settings etc., you can maintain an extremely close formation visually. At least this is how I prefer to do it. But I'd agree with Mikester quicksmart on this one: formation flying is pretty to look at and it does have knock-on benefits to your coordination, spatial reasoning, and throttle-jockeying ability but when it comes to combat formation flying, you have to be much looser, much more flexible.

If you're concentrating all your efforts on maintaining a tight formation relative to your leader, you're neglecting your task of scanning the sky for the enemy. A good, loose formation allows for mutual protection, great potential attacking power, and excellent SA.

As soon as the fight is joined you won't be glued to the leader's wing but rather you'll put a bit of space between each other so that the flight can quickly press home an advantage or else enter into a mutual defense. This should be considered as two-plane teamwork rather than formation flying. As soon as two planes fight as a team, they add Drag 'n' Bag to the attacking repertoire of Turn 'n' Burn and Boom 'n' Zoom.

Drag 'n' bag involves one plane luring the enemy into a pursuit, thereby allowing the second plane the chance to attack. You probably already do this instinctively when flying with friendlies, just as you would combine TnB and BnZ manoeuvers without consciously thinking about them, but by training and coordinating attacks, a two-plane team becomes lethal to even the best lone pilot who chooses to engage them.

[:FI:Noter]

Sorry guys, guess I didn't explain it well enough, that's the same kinda stuff I'm talking about, along with the tight formation flying. Combat spread, which plane should attack while the other sets up, obviously the dogfighting comes ito play here, but this is the stuff I'd like to get better at. I understand it for the most part, but I don't implement it very well.

Noter

[:FI:Rabitski]

Yer putting the cart before the horse guy's.
1v1 shouldn't really happen and if you do a class in it, it should be the last thing you learn. Franks weener class I think has the best format, you get a solid grasp on the basic's before you move on to the next step. We need to improve peoples over all flying skills, not just the shooting part. teach them how to stay alive first, how to get a shoot up plane back to base, when to attack and when not to attack, to have a better grasp on what it going on about them. And most of all to know there own limit's. Not everyone is going to be a natural dogfighter so teach them to stay alive long eneough for the guy's who can do the killing to do the killing, you have to impart in them the fact that even though they flew around and shot @ thing's for no result the fact that they stayed alive help's everyone.

[:FI:TacticalS!]

For some reason Rab's good comments reminded me of this ancient saying, "When the Student is Ready, the Teacher will appear." I know a while ago Rab shared some of his insights into the game online with me (and SpookyRuben and Menace) that I very much appreciated.

Regardless of what training is done as a group, I would like to encourage everyone that there is so much to be gained from reading. From reading I was better able to understand SA, energy management, and just my general approach prior to and during the merge.

The way I have always looked at the game is from a wide view down to the gunner's view. In other words one needs to develop the big picture and that takes some experience and patience (and stick time of course). And like so many things, it is generally easier to comprehend from a book but harder to implement into the game.

Regards,
TS

[:FI:Rabitski]

Reading next you'll be telling us that going out side for a walk is good for us.

[:FI:Mikester]

I dont believe its about the shooting, but from flying 1 v 1 you do improve on your flying skils which is what its all about, if someone gets on your tail with a couple of turns your fuc****d no matter how good your shooting is. If your able to fly like this it will play a major part if you get jumped by a small group(this will happen even when flyin safe). Its amazing how diferent people will fly if they feel a bit of pressure. You shoot 1 pilot from a group of 2 good chance youl see his wing man go the opp way!

I also think survival is as important, if you can be good at both these skills and combine them you are more than half way.

Things ill be working on will be flying and team work. Shooting will come in time dont think there is anyone that can tell you how to be great shot.

[:FI:TacticalS!]

Reading next you'll be telling us that going out side for a walk is good for us.

I hope not as lately my level of exercise has been rather poor. It would help if it stopped raining here in the Maritimes. We just finished receiving over 100 mm (10 cm or 3.9 inches) or rain over the weekend. I wonder how folks in the U.K. stay healthy?

[:FI:Gadje]

Everyone who flies Il-2 has had to dogfight 1v1 at somepoint. If you fly on DF servers you do it all the time.

You can choose not to of course but the idea as I understood it was that flight school should cover different aspects of the game and for those that want to learn to dogfight human on human is right at the top for learning how.


There is a lot to it of course but quite simple things when explained can help your chances if you want to dogfight. And things like MM on Snoop's server tell me a few pointers here and there would be helpful for some M8's and if they are interested why not?

I know it is helpful because weve already tried

[:FI:Genosse]

Folks!

Here´s the plan we students have to follow in the Jagdfliegerschule. I hope all points make sense to you since I did a rough translation on the following list ...

• Chapter 1 - Basics
  
  1. Aerial Basics (Taxiing, Take Off And Landings)
  2. Introduction into aircraft controlls (Ailerons, Elevators And Rudder)
  3. Advanced control of an aircraft (Engine Management)
  
  Chapter 2 - Training For Advanced Pilots
  
  1. Behaviour In Exceptional Situations
  2. Navigation
  3. Introduction Into Ground Assault
  4. Advanced Ground Assault
  5. Ground Assault: Tactics And Coordination
  6. Air Combat Maneuvers
  7. Gunnery
  8. Formation Flying
  9. Dogfight
  
  Chapter 3 - Special Courses
  
  1. Operational Planning And Management
  2. Ju-87 - Basics
  3. Ju-87 - Advanced Handling
  4. He-111
  5. Me 262 A-1 And A-2
  6. Stuka badge

Maybe we could use this plan and change the entries in the last chapter (besides the first point) into some Allied aircrafts?

Whaddya think, folks?