Energy Management?

[:FI:Snaphoo]

Is there a handy-dandy tip sheet on this? Because the only thing I've seen on this is making "gentle, smooth adjustments" during flight. Well that's great for getting there, and makes perfect sense. Wouldn't want to make a 90 deree turn trying to keep up with the flight, and all. But is there a way to conserve energy while in the midst of a furball/maneuvring around to get a shot? Most of the time, I seem to be "banking and yanking" when I should probably be "zooming and booming".

Any suggestions, or referrences would be most helpful.

Thanks.

Sna"last again"phoo

[:FI:Gurberly]

Yeah I think we all need to look at this.

Price of gas has really shot up this year... like about by 200%

E-lec-tricity (for those that have it) seems to have gone up by a similar amount.

Watch your energy and you won't go cold this winter.


G


(That was a public service broadcast)

[:FI:WillieOFS]

After you've spent all your money on gas and electricity, when in a furball and you've used up all your speed, you'd be well advised to know how to fly on the ragged edge of the stall if you expect to be able to make it out alive.

BnZ stuff is fun, HOWEVER, stall fighting is an art.

Best thing I can recommend is get out of the furball whilst you still have the energy to so. Give yourself a limit as to the number of turns you can make, or a minimum airspeed and altitude, then have the discipline to dis-engage when the fight isn't to your liking.

An old F-14 driver buddy of mine said, "It's a GREAT feeling to be able to run away at Mach 2 if you need to."

[:FI:Scott]

I tend to sit down and have a nice cup of tea.

If yer talking flyin' il2flying.com has got some good tutorials worth a shuftie.

[:FI:Gadje]

Imho energy fighting is just good dogfighting, whether your BnZ'ing or TnB'ing(manuever fighting is a better name if your doing it right!) watching your energy state in comparison to your opponent's is crucial to winning.

If your in a manuever fight the thing not to do is flat horizontal turns, try and keep the fight vertical. Change direction by a climbing turn followed by a roll over, called a high yo-yo. Do it right and you will gain height and angles on a flat-turning opponent. Climbing and rolling to change direction is the thing to learn as this loses less E.

Energy fighting is about trying to bank as much E as you can before you start the fight. Try and maintain it as best you can by not doing flat turns, instead climb whenever possible but its also knowing when to cash some of it in. And what E buys is angles, in defence to avoid getting shot or in offence for you to get shots at your opponent.

This last bit is where most people make mistakes when trying to E-fight. Its great meeting people online who you know are trying to E-fight as if moving their stick is the greatest of crimes

They look passive from the opponents point of view and all you need do is one hard manuever to get on there six, dont waste any more energy, build speed and slowly cut angles on them till your close enough for a shot. Unless they are in a faster plane and they extend well its now over.

I would describe E fighting as controlled aggression. If the previous example is too passive the true TnB guy is super aggressive. Always prepared to bank hard to get his sight on you.

You can beat these guys by suckering them in to blow all their E and pouncing on them as they flounder energy-less below you. This is risky and often involves giving them a difficult shot but each time they pull hard to make the shot they are running out of options and the energy fighter gets more advantage.

A good energy fighter is neither a a smooth flying extend artist or a hard manouvering junkie he is both depending on the situation. The really hard bit is becoming proficient at recognising your opponents E state.

Might try and do a track if I can get it hosted.

[:FI:Noter]

Great post Gadje, a track would be great, but even better, would be a movie with a voice over explaining what you see your enemy doing and what you gauge his state to be. How to do this...I have no idea, but that would be huge, not just to see what you are doing but here what you are doing and why. I've seen tracks and they have been a big help, but am always curious about why the pilot did certain things at a certain time. Ideas any body?

I know I could use some help with E tactics too. I tend to be the guy Gadje was refering too as blowing their E in a horizontal turn fight. End up low and slow with no options.

Noter

[:FI:Snaphoo]

I know I could use some help with E tactics too. I tend to be the guy Gadje was refering too as blowing their E in a horizontal turn fight. End up low and slow with no options.

You're definitely not alone Noter.

Excellent post Gadje. I'd be very interested in watching that track/movie.

Very good point Willie. Now if I can just get to the point where I can break before I lose all momentum. Though the only plane I've been able to successfully extend with so far is the P-38.

[:FI:Sneaky_Russian]

I'd be able to capture to video and edit .I guess I could get a silent version
hosted and record your narrative (while viewing) over TS. would then simply dub sound to finished version.

[:FI:Gadje]

Just did a track.

Tried using the IL-2 onboard sound as someone said it also gets recorded but no-go

So silent. Sneaky can U host? I'll send it if U can and don't mind.

[:FI:Sneaky_Russian]

No prob. I'll get the .qtrk hosted and set to work on the vid.
You can e-mail me the track as is, or as a zip

[:FI:Sneaky_Russian]

FI Flight School,
Energy Management track by Gadge G6l v Spits Vlll

[:FI:Gadje]

Thx Sneaky

Its a track of me flying a G6 late v 3 Spit VIII set at ace.

I have 25 percent fuel, default loadout. They 50 and default. Icons off.

Chose this matchup as a bit of a challenge as the Spit VIII kicks the G6's butt in about everything. And I nearly came a cropper

I couldn't extend as I would have liked cause they climb better but the extend at the merge is about us being pretty equal but I spiral climb and they flat turn then climb. That just gives me enough to stay above for a shot at the lowest.

Second extend is a bit too close for comfort and against real pilots I'm dead. Mind you real pilots dont keep their energy as well as AI!

After that its a manuever fight! Sort of energy fight in a furball outnumbered and in a slower plane.

If you look I climb as and when I can, I only turn hard (almost always with a vertical element) to try a shot or evade one and keep my speed up only slowing down at the top of a climb when I see I'm safe. At these points I try to unload the stick to maximise acceleration.

Snap shots are all I am prepared to do in this 3v1 scenario.They are well worth practicing. Staying on a plane for a deflection shot will get U killed pronto against 3. Until the last one when its all out get the MF.

The other thing I mentioned is rolling into position rather than pulling on the stick, if you watch I do this alot.

Hope it makes sense.

I called Energy fighting controlled aggression. This is more defensive aggression

[:FI:Rabitski]

When I was thinking of joining the PF they wanted to know what I was made of.Coastie was talking about a match up he did with a P-47D22 against 2 109G6's set @ ace and starting @ 3000m alt, So I went up against 6 of them set on ace at 3000m and fought them up to 8000m and bagged the lot of them. Sent the track to Coastie and that was that I was in the <PF>. Thats the plane to learn energy managment not that wheener plane with an 88mm in the nose be it 30 or 20mm. With the US planes you have to gain alt dive and sit behind your target for a bit longer to shoot it down. Not saying one is harder than the other just different and when you have to stay in the saddle a bit longer it raises the bar a bit. Saying that it was a while ago before the OKL patches made all the Axis planes noob bird's, don't think I could do it now where you have a 4ton plane that sloop's about the sky @ the slighest touch on the control no matter what speed your going .

[:FI:Gadje]

Well its just different as you eventually said.

Just did it like the last one, 1 '43 p47v 3 ace G6 AI. Took ages getting enough seperation had to go to 10k at very shallow climb. Luckily I trimmed it and read the paper

Frankly I find that extend climb dive type of fighting easier than manuever fighting against better planes. Although getting 6 is damn good shooting on your part Greg.
I didnt have to take risks and the G6's didnt have a chance up there.

Hundreds of 190 jocks cant be wrong. Extend.Extend..turnround or run away.

Tried tapeing it but got an IL-2 error.......tape too long?

But if anyone wants to see this type of energy fight I could do it again.

Thinking about it the fast extending planes flown by AI do it really well themselves....watch them

[Nightcat]

a B25 vs 4 ace 109 G-6's, thats a dogfight

I know alot of people think its funny but I think energy fighting is something you learn very much in a B25 fighter aircraft (or heavier variant) - specially with a full load of bombs and 100% fuel. Get it wrong, cash in the energy to early and your gonna fall out the sky. Also because its slow you have to use climbing, diving turns to make up the energy and you notice losing speed so clearly.

Of course when you switch to another aircraft its like Skoda to Formula 1... course nobody likes D9 skodas

Anyway its just my 2 euros worth, I'm no expert on dogfighting like Rabitski or Gadje & co, but I do dogfight bombers alot ^^

NC