i was asked a question about flight sims

Everything but not IL2 ... say here 'Hello!' ;)
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i was asked a question about flight sims

Post by Beowolff » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:07 pm

right, right...where was I now? oh, i got it! yes, i was aked a question (seriously, I was) a few days ago from a friend that "dabbles" in some first person shooters and on VERY rare occasions flies flight sims.

his question was this, "Beo, ole chap, i know you've flown near every flight sim on the market, and tested a few that NEVER made it...so you know your way around those sort of sims... tell me, what's the bum deal with IL2?"

"what bum deal are you speaking of?" i asked. "IL2 is the most advanced WW2 combat flight sim of all time... do you mean not having more U.S. planes in the PTO?"

"no, no---not that, Beo!" he threw back at me. "that "may" be a bum deal but it's not THE bum deal with the game..."

"then what?" i asked again.

"well," he answered after a moment, "it's this. you know that CFS---the original version, CFS1, was wayyyy more primitive than IL2...wayyy as in like dinosaurs compared to spaceships?"

"well, sure," i acknowledged slowly, not wanting to "admit" anything until my bud had finished his speal.

"okay, okay," he went on... "so you know that. and you know that thousands play IL2 because it IS the definitive combat flight sim, right?"

"well, duh? yeah?" I again agreed smuggly and with one of my famous withering sneers and eye-rolls. "that's a given. and it's not just that thousands play IL2---it's most likely TENS of thousands. just check out hyper lobby on any weekend night."

"okay, i'll give you that then," he said with a nod... "tens of thousands play IL2. okay, but here's the real question, if tens of thousands play IL2, the most advanced WW2 combat flight sim of all time---yet to be created---why did MILLIONS play the much inferior, much more primitive MS combat flight sim called CFS1?"

"ah-ha! gotcha!" he spouted proudly. "answer THAT one, will ya, mister flight sim know-it-all smarty-pants? and don't say you don't know it's true. YOU were there, bucko! yep! right there in the middle of the MS ZONE with every knuckle-dragging, low-brow, sloped forehead that strapped into a CFS1 plane and dueled it out in cyberspace! you were right along with the ride almost every night for a VERY long time...you saw the millions playing it."

"---now, if IL2 is so great---why aren't the great unwashed masses flying IT like they did CFS1---an admittedly inferior game? why? just tell me why? IL2 may be grand and many, many may fly it...but "not" millions like CFS1---and i damned well want to know why! And i want YOU to tell me why, buddy boy! YOU!"

(at that point he had clutched me savagely by my coat lapel, he was breathing deeply and there was clear spittal running from the corner of his mouth...did i say his teeth were clenched and his eyes bugged out? no matter... it was time for him to GTF back! like NOW!)

i found out long ago that nothing makes a person let go of your coat lapels like a swift, sharp jab to the solar plexis---so i generously applied my technique to my bud. after his breath came back and he seemed himself again, i patiently gave him the only answer i could concerning his question.

"well, old boy, to my way of thinking, there's one reason and one reason alone that Millions played CFS1 and only tens of thousands play IL2... (and this is serious, guys!) it wasn't just the game...in fact, i don't think the game had anything to do with it at all... it was the (here it is) the ZONE and the GAME. ---the combination of the two."

"yeah, what i said... sure hyper lobby beats the socks off of the sucky UBI gaming hookup... but the MS ZONE---well, it was HUGE, sponsered by the trillions of dollars from Microsoft...it had power...and rooms...and those gaming rooms were neato and encouraged you to hang out there. and the GAME---CFS1 itself had those neat pre-flight hookup rooms...hell, all of us hard core flight sim guys would go to the zone, open up a room there, then start the game and sit around chewing tactics or talking about women or beer for hours...in our own private little world. a private little world right inside the game itself... and at any time, we could hop right into action, zooming and booming in our fave fighter ride! then hop right out...chat some more...hop right back into flight! it was neater than hell! and people loved it!"

"oh yeah... and IL2 just doesn't have anything like that. yeah, its got a briefing room, of sorts...but its clunky and hoky and not very sophistocated at all. and you can't just sit around in there and visit, throw jeers or taunts, or shoot the bull...and then jump right into combat, come out and rest and do it all over again. that's a downer."

"your kidding, right?" my bud asked me...looking sort of disappointed at my answer to his question.

"Not at all," i told him.

"And by the way...never grab my lapels again and drip spit on my shoes!" I warned him. and with that, i gave him another jab in the solar plexis region...just to let him know i meant business about it all.

hey, i doubt if i'll ever see him again.

:?

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Post by :FI:TacticalS! » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:34 pm

My belief is the answer lies outside of the game. Back in the day PC gaming was more predominant and gamers owned joysticks. There were quality ones on store shelves. Flights games, both simulations and arcade ones like Star Wars Tie Fighter, were a staple of the gaming diet for a lot of folks.

Today most gamers play on the console, and moreover most of the kids have lost an interest in flight sims. Even the modern jet games don't hold their appeal. Quality joysticks, not to mention devices like TrackIR and pedals, are no longer found in stores, and the time investment and costs in a game like IL-2 are very steep.

I wouldn't go so far as to say this generation of gamers are less skilled or less capable, but I would say that the flight sim market is not as approachable as it was previously. Even MS Flight Simulator, while doing very well in comparison to IL-2, pails in comparison to FPS like MS Halo.

And yet an upcoming WW2 flight combat game is coming to the Xbox 360. My prediction is that it will outsell the IL-2 series, but not approach the sales of other Xbox titles. Why? Certainly it will be much more approachable on the console. So there must be something more to the equation.

Maybe kids rather jump in and out of a lot of games in the run of a year, where as older folks like me like to enjoy only a few titles a year. Again IL-2 takes time to fully enjoy, maybe this generation would rather digest its games in a few weeks and move on? Piracy plays a part in this I suppose. While games like BF2 maintains a large online presence, it does so by including changes via a series of addons, not to mention an ever-changing fanbase.

All I know is unless the masses return to their love affair with flight sims, I don't personally believe the shortcomings of the IL-2 series that we discuss really make that much of a difference in the marketplace. If Maddox Games can do anything, it can try to make the game more approachable to newcomers, while not abandoning the hardcore sim addicts it has, which may remain its only bread and butter for the years (hopefully) to come.

Newcomers need to see some real advertising and rebates for the hardware to run the game!

TS!
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Post by Beowolff » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:50 pm

oh, i agree with ya, pal...for the most part. its a DIFFERENT world "now" for PC gaming. no doubt about it. but at the time IL2 FIRST came out (yeah, its been SEVERAL years ago now...yet don't seem like it) PC games were still pretty popular and they're were still quality joysticks on the store shelves and console games were considered "kiddie" games and not played that much at all.

and sure, now---all of the mentioned above (and more) hurt IL2 (and any other pc game) but back then---there were slightly different reasons the game never sold like the CFS1 hotcakes. really, i remember well coming off of CFS1 to CFS2 and being disappointed like hell in CFS2's MANY shortcomings... and "boom" within a short time of CFS2's release...up popped IL2---a MUCH superior game. or at least superior in many ways...

well, i---and many others, were more than glad to drop CFS2 like a hot potato and latch on to the neato IL2---only we immediately missed having the MASSIVE zone area to play on... also, we immediately missed the neato, user friendly game interface... the in-game chat/hangout room, the ability to launch into a swirling dogfight and then drop out for a break and easily sit about and chat with our companions in the tidy little chat box of a squad room.

to tell you the truth, i missed the neat CFS1 plane selection box... it was cool.

IL2 has never had those neat things---in fact, Oleg put so much concentration on the planes that he forgot about those little things of gaming that meant so much to us all.

take Red Baron (especially the original game but to some extent RB3D as well)... the "atmosphere" inside that game made it real for most of us. heck, i felt like a REAL WW1 fighter ace everytime i opened up that game and played it. the little cut scenes... the promotions... the challenges from the enemy aces (the cheating, double-crossing bastards!) the pride of getting plane upgrades because of your skill... the invitations from other, more prestigious squadrons to join them... getting shotdown and captured and having to rot in prison...or maybe escaping... yeah, all way cool.

all of that got lost somewhere, and not just with IL2...but with all PC games.

and THE GAME MAKERS STARTED turning outs bits of hokay trasy for us to play! yeah, unfinished smatterings of code that would barely (if at all) play on your computer without an instant PATCH to make it work! and i believe THAT is what really brought PC gaming to its knees!

you match that with everything you've already said... and viola! the near death of PC gaming as we know it.

sad, sad, sad...

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Post by :FI:TacticalS! » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:00 pm

I too generally agree with your comments mate. Except perhaps for your comment that PC gaming is dieing. While PC gaming is certainly taking a backseat to console gaming (market share), I think you mean flight sim gaming is dieing, right? The PC is still the only place for popular strategy gaming, which is my first love. :) Mind you that evil Xbox 360 + EA Games is releasing a RTS (Battle for Middle Earth) game for the console.
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Post by Beowolff » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:22 pm

agreed, agreed....

well, and what's this NEW UBI flight sim being released for XBOX 365??? flaming aces or some such name??

i only saw a few screenies...but it looked cool. anyone know more about it? (mind you i DON'T have an XBOX---yet.)

:?

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Post by :FI:TacticalS! » Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:22 pm

Yes. I plan on renting this game. It does look very immersive. Of course the control system will be extremely limited, and with its energy bars it will definitely be arcadish. :( Not expecting a whole lot but maybe some nice sounds and missions - maybe. Hearing poor preliminary reviews.

Still if they can throw tons of planes up in the air it might be a nice week long rental.

TS!

http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Screenshot. ... &sId=25151
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