fourteen kills?
fourteen ki ...
why I ...
jee ...
y ...
son of a ...
w-well, I have fourteen kills too!
you gotta start countin' from back in September ...
but I have fourteen flippin' kills too!
hmph!
Falcontrite
TACTICS SCHOOL: A Joint Effort
-
:FI:Falcon
- Full Metal Ferret
- Posts: 5572
- Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 6:32 am
- Location: New Orleans
- Contact:
"He who warned, uh, the British that they weren't gonna be takin' away our arms, uh, by ringing those bells, and um, makin' sure as he's riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells that we were going to be sure and we were going to be free, and we were going to be armed."
- The history of Paul Revere's midnight ride, by Sarah Palin.
-
:FI:Gurberly
- The Unforseeable
- Posts: 1348
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:48 am
- Location: Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Agree... those in Vow should have priority (.. and last weekend, I should have checked the DF server first rather than VOW for inactive users).:FI:Redneck wrote:i hear you about the channel sitting but its difficult in Vow as you need it when you go in, but someone could get shot down and leave leaving you sitting on a channel that you are technically not using but are still flying and will need it agan when you land and meet up again in the vow lobby.
Maybe vow should use the green channel leaving red and blue open to other users ??
i think now that its 16 we wont really have a problem
It might be worth labeling up a seperate channel for VOW. It might stop people wandering and starting chatting. If they know you are in VOW they'll listen to see if you are busy first...
"Hiya mate, what are you up to.. been a busy day here and the weather is crap with a capital C. 'm looking forward to some flying now."
"Sorry mate..whats that you say?? you have a bandit on your six and you can't contact your wingman as some idiot is chatting about the weather on the chann ..... oops"
I fear no beer
-
:FI:Snoop Baron
- Post Maniac 3rd Grade
- Posts: 941
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:21 am
- Location: Austin, TX USA
Thanks for sharing some of your insights from last night guys. It really helps to post these "debrefings". I know that I get a little bit better every time I get a new bit of advice and then make it part of my routine by making use of it during practice.
We were indeed a little to spread out during some of those encounters. I think 400 meters between each two planes could be a nice trade off between being to far apart and to close together.
I know that I need to take better advantage of my mustangs high speed turn advantage. I think part of the key in doing this is to prevent blackouts by throttling back in those hard turns as needed.
Last night we didn't have enough room on TS when Gen joined but I asked one of the TX guys to open up a spot. I wanted them on our TS atleast the first night so we could get to know them a little bit better. But they do have their own TS server so next time I'll ask them to switch to that once we are ready to start the battle
We were indeed a little to spread out during some of those encounters. I think 400 meters between each two planes could be a nice trade off between being to far apart and to close together.
I know that I need to take better advantage of my mustangs high speed turn advantage. I think part of the key in doing this is to prevent blackouts by throttling back in those hard turns as needed.
Last night we didn't have enough room on TS when Gen joined but I asked one of the TX guys to open up a spot. I wanted them on our TS atleast the first night so we could get to know them a little bit better. But they do have their own TS server so next time I'll ask them to switch to that once we are ready to start the battle
-
:FI:Heloego
- Post Maniac General
- Posts: 3899
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:40 pm
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA (Smile when you say that!)
Living Longer
Had a great time Wedn against TX!
Even though my gunstats showed 3400+ shots fired and a 0% hit rate
But apparently practice helps, cuz I'm not getting shot up/down as often!
Thanks everybody for all the tips 'n stuff! These practice sessions really help!
Even though my gunstats showed 3400+ shots fired and a 0% hit rate
But apparently practice helps, cuz I'm not getting shot up/down as often!
Thanks everybody for all the tips 'n stuff! These practice sessions really help!
...and wear your feckin' mask!!!!! 
-
SpinyNorman
- Newbie
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:15 am
maybe some useful stuff in here for y'all.
http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_ ... d&id=yuuvk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
laters
http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_ ... d&id=yuuvk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
laters
-
:FI:Snoop Baron
- Post Maniac 3rd Grade
- Posts: 941
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:21 am
- Location: Austin, TX USA
Heads up guys. Don't forget that tonight the TX squadron will be joining us for training. I hope we have a good showing and that everyone has a great time 
If you go to their forum you will see that they will probably have 6+ pilots.
http://www.txsquadron.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1287" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So if you can make it, it should be a lot of fun.
If you go to their forum you will see that they will probably have 6+ pilots.
http://www.txsquadron.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1287" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So if you can make it, it should be a lot of fun.
-
:FI:Snoop Baron
- Post Maniac 3rd Grade
- Posts: 941
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:21 am
- Location: Austin, TX USA
I wanted to post this so that we may put some of it to use in our training to night against the TX-squadron. I’ve been reading Fighter Combat’s chapters on multi-plane engagements to see what new techniques I could learn to practice with our squad. Well one technique that I think might prove useful is known as “Loose Duce.†It is a technique similar to “Double Attack†which is something we have already been doing (even if we didn’t call it that or know it ourselves). Both loose duce and double attack are wingman tactics.
In double attack when two friendly fighters engage an enemy fighter one of the friendly fighters takes the roll of engaged fighter and the other friendly fighter takes the roll of the free fighter. The engaged fighter, engages the bandit maneuvering for a kill. The free fighter maintains an energy advantage “perched†above the fight. The free fighter’s role is to observe the engaged fighter and bandit while keeping an eye out for any incoming fighters. The free fighter needs to communicate any relevant information about the environment to the engaged fighter to keep the situational awareness for the team high. At the same time the free fighter needs to be prepared to engage the bandit if ever the engaged fighter is put on the defensive. If this happens the friendly fighters switch roles, the friendly fighter that was put on the defensive disengages and takes his new spot as the free fighter on the perch.
In loose duce when two friendly fighters engage an enemy fighter one of the friendly fighters takes the roll of engaged fighter and the other friendly fighter takes the roll of the free fighter. The engaged fighter, engages the bandit maneuvering to keep the bandit on the defensive. The engaged fighter should keep the pressure on the bandit without risking being put on the defensive. While the engaged fighters primary role is not to get a kill if the opportunity does come up he should go for it. The free fighter maneuvers for a position from which to make his attack that the engaged fighter is in the process of setting up by both depleting the bandit’s energy and making the bandit’s flight path more predictable. A typical approach would be for the free fighter to climb above the fight to the outside of the turn and then dive into the bandits blind six for the kill. The free fighter also serves a situational awareness role and needs to communicate any relevant information about the environment to the engaged fighter. The free fighter needs to communicate with the engaged fighter when it is going in for the kill. If the free fighter does not make a kill on its first attempt the fighters switch roll and the fight continues.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both strategies. We have been informally using double attack when fighting as a team online. But loose duce does provide some nice advantages. First it can usually deliver a kill in less time and fewer degrees of turn than double attack. Second it is a more aggressive tactic with both fighters actively pressuring the bandit. Because in loose duce the free fighter is more involved in the battle the situational awareness that it provides will not be as good as it can provide in double attack, but because the fights tend to end sooner it is often a better defensive tactic as it lowers the likely hood of additional bandits entering the fight before it is done. As they say, a good offense is the best defense.
There is more that can be said about both double attack and loose duce let alone squad tactics, but this should be enough to get things going (plus I have training to get ready for). See you guys tonight!
s!
Snoop
In double attack when two friendly fighters engage an enemy fighter one of the friendly fighters takes the roll of engaged fighter and the other friendly fighter takes the roll of the free fighter. The engaged fighter, engages the bandit maneuvering for a kill. The free fighter maintains an energy advantage “perched†above the fight. The free fighter’s role is to observe the engaged fighter and bandit while keeping an eye out for any incoming fighters. The free fighter needs to communicate any relevant information about the environment to the engaged fighter to keep the situational awareness for the team high. At the same time the free fighter needs to be prepared to engage the bandit if ever the engaged fighter is put on the defensive. If this happens the friendly fighters switch roles, the friendly fighter that was put on the defensive disengages and takes his new spot as the free fighter on the perch.
In loose duce when two friendly fighters engage an enemy fighter one of the friendly fighters takes the roll of engaged fighter and the other friendly fighter takes the roll of the free fighter. The engaged fighter, engages the bandit maneuvering to keep the bandit on the defensive. The engaged fighter should keep the pressure on the bandit without risking being put on the defensive. While the engaged fighters primary role is not to get a kill if the opportunity does come up he should go for it. The free fighter maneuvers for a position from which to make his attack that the engaged fighter is in the process of setting up by both depleting the bandit’s energy and making the bandit’s flight path more predictable. A typical approach would be for the free fighter to climb above the fight to the outside of the turn and then dive into the bandits blind six for the kill. The free fighter also serves a situational awareness role and needs to communicate any relevant information about the environment to the engaged fighter. The free fighter needs to communicate with the engaged fighter when it is going in for the kill. If the free fighter does not make a kill on its first attempt the fighters switch roll and the fight continues.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both strategies. We have been informally using double attack when fighting as a team online. But loose duce does provide some nice advantages. First it can usually deliver a kill in less time and fewer degrees of turn than double attack. Second it is a more aggressive tactic with both fighters actively pressuring the bandit. Because in loose duce the free fighter is more involved in the battle the situational awareness that it provides will not be as good as it can provide in double attack, but because the fights tend to end sooner it is often a better defensive tactic as it lowers the likely hood of additional bandits entering the fight before it is done. As they say, a good offense is the best defense.
There is more that can be said about both double attack and loose duce let alone squad tactics, but this should be enough to get things going (plus I have training to get ready for). See you guys tonight!
s!
Snoop
-
:FI:Heloego
- Post Maniac General
- Posts: 3899
- Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:40 pm
- Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA (Smile when you say that!)
-
:FI:Snoop Baron
- Post Maniac 3rd Grade
- Posts: 941
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:21 am
- Location: Austin, TX USA
Tip from Moses:
If a guy gets on my tail and I have alt I dive straight down then roll 180 degrees cut the engine and pull up into a climbing turn. If they try to follow me they will usualy over shoot and I can cut into their turn and get on their six.
Correct if I'm wrong moses but I believe this is what you said. Worked for him twice tonight thought I'd share.
If a guy gets on my tail and I have alt I dive straight down then roll 180 degrees cut the engine and pull up into a climbing turn. If they try to follow me they will usualy over shoot and I can cut into their turn and get on their six.
Correct if I'm wrong moses but I believe this is what you said. Worked for him twice tonight
thought I'd share.-
:FI:Snoop Baron
- Post Maniac 3rd Grade
- Posts: 941
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:21 am
- Location: Austin, TX USA
More tips from the guys:
If a guy is out turning me, I'll turn outside their turn while climbing cuting throttle if I have to and using rudder to keep climbing on the turn then I'll gain enough altitude to roll and drop on their six.
If I'm on someone and I'm overshooting I'll roll so my belly is facing up and then pull down on the stick so that I climb up but upside down, if externals are off this will confuse them and usualy they will loose sight of you. At the same time it allows me to slow up and gain some altitude. Once you have pushed them up in front I roll over and drop on them.
If a guy is out turning me, I'll turn outside their turn while climbing cuting throttle if I have to and using rudder to keep climbing on the turn then I'll gain enough altitude to roll and drop on their six.
If I'm on someone and I'm overshooting I'll roll so my belly is facing up and then pull down on the stick so that I climb up but upside down, if externals are off this will confuse them and usualy they will loose sight of you. At the same time it allows me to slow up and gain some altitude. Once you have pushed them up in front I roll over and drop on them.
Pretty much....:FI:Snoop Baron wrote:Tip from Moses:
If a guy gets on my tail and I have alt I dive straight down then roll 180 degrees cut the engine and pull up into a climbing turn. If they try to follow me they will usualy over shoot and I can cut into their turn and get on their six.
Correct if I'm wrong moses but I believe this is what you said. Worked for him twice tonight
One thing I would add... just before you pull up make at least a 45 degree roll, that will put him a little behind if not loose him al together.Cheers,
Mad
-
:FI:Snoop Baron
- Post Maniac 3rd Grade
- Posts: 941
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:21 am
- Location: Austin, TX USA
Some observations:
Yak3 fully open radiator drag can reduce your top speed anywere between 20-40k.
P51 fully open radiator drag can reduce your top speed anywere between 10-20k.
So the P51 radiator does not induce as much drag as that of the Yak3 because it used an inovative low drag design that could also gain back some of the thrust lost by providing some jet-like thrust from the air exiting the back of the radiator.
Some opinions:
I've been flying the P-51 with the radiator open because it didn't reduce my speed by that much and provided some nice benefits. One I could run at full throttle for longer periods of time and cool down when I did start to overheat much faster. Two it reduces pilot work load as I do not have to deal with overheats that often. I'm switching over to the Close/Auto option instead of just open as after some testing in the quick mission builder it seems to perform as well as open, and at the same time it may provided some small boost in performance. If it ends up working as well in online combat I'll probably switch to that configuration. But in the case of the P51 open or auto seems a better choice than closed and messing with radiator and throttle settings frequently for cooling down.
I don't fly the Yak3 very much but when I do fly it I have been using radiator open. Mainly because that is what I was used to with the P51 and the Yak3 really likes to over heat. While you do get a more significant reduction in the level top speed with the Yak3 in actual combat it doesn't seem that apparent. In fact when going up against other Yak3s I often find myself gaining on them. I believe this is because while closed radiator gives them the speed edge they are not cooling their engine down quick enough that on average in a prolonged fight I end up with the over all speed advantage. I did some quick mission testing with the Yak3 and an interesting alternative to Open radiator seems using radiator setting 6. It didn't cut back speed nearly as much while still providing better cooling. I'm going to give that a try online with the Yak3 and see how it compares to open. The Yak3 doesn't not have an auto position like the P51.
One more thing if you do need to get a performance boost and your in the open setting you are only one click away from going to the closed position. On the other hand if you are in the closed position and need to cool down you are several clicks away from open radiator.
Summary:
Snoop has enough things to worry about and is to lazy to want to mess with to much engine management while trying to stay alive
Yak3 fully open radiator drag can reduce your top speed anywere between 20-40k.
P51 fully open radiator drag can reduce your top speed anywere between 10-20k.
So the P51 radiator does not induce as much drag as that of the Yak3 because it used an inovative low drag design that could also gain back some of the thrust lost by providing some jet-like thrust from the air exiting the back of the radiator.
Some opinions:
I've been flying the P-51 with the radiator open because it didn't reduce my speed by that much and provided some nice benefits. One I could run at full throttle for longer periods of time and cool down when I did start to overheat much faster. Two it reduces pilot work load as I do not have to deal with overheats that often. I'm switching over to the Close/Auto option instead of just open as after some testing in the quick mission builder it seems to perform as well as open, and at the same time it may provided some small boost in performance. If it ends up working as well in online combat I'll probably switch to that configuration. But in the case of the P51 open or auto seems a better choice than closed and messing with radiator and throttle settings frequently for cooling down.
I don't fly the Yak3 very much but when I do fly it I have been using radiator open. Mainly because that is what I was used to with the P51 and the Yak3 really likes to over heat. While you do get a more significant reduction in the level top speed with the Yak3 in actual combat it doesn't seem that apparent. In fact when going up against other Yak3s I often find myself gaining on them. I believe this is because while closed radiator gives them the speed edge they are not cooling their engine down quick enough that on average in a prolonged fight I end up with the over all speed advantage. I did some quick mission testing with the Yak3 and an interesting alternative to Open radiator seems using radiator setting 6. It didn't cut back speed nearly as much while still providing better cooling. I'm going to give that a try online with the Yak3 and see how it compares to open. The Yak3 doesn't not have an auto position like the P51.
One more thing if you do need to get a performance boost and your in the open setting you are only one click away from going to the closed position. On the other hand if you are in the closed position and need to cool down you are several clicks away from open radiator.
Summary:
Snoop has enough things to worry about and is to lazy to want to mess with to much engine management while trying to stay alive
-
:FI:TacticalS!
- Post Maniac General
- Posts: 2513
- Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:05 pm
- Location: Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada
Thanks for the summary and all your advice last night Snoop 
. I enjoyed talking to you and the other mates. Willie I thought you were from Ireland - who knew there was a Dublin in Texas!
Interesting findings regarding the Yak. I agree 6 or fully open. I also will try both settings at HyperLobby.
I know that when I started playing IL-2FB (my first flight combat game) I didn't think I would ever learn CEM. After a while, and lots of reading later, I was thinking more about CEM then actual combat techniques (what few I knew
).
A very good rule in life is KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Your advice Snoop is sound. But let me tell you mates, I had the coolest engines in HL, well until they were set on fire. I guess a cool engine with lots of gas in the tank isn't much help to a dead pilot after all .
Again, thanks for all the advice and encouragement last night. I think the Yak-3 and P-51 will get some practice off/online over the next couple of nights.
P.S. Willie - I accept your challenge about who can get shot down the fastest/most.
. I enjoyed talking to you and the other mates. Willie I thought you were from Ireland - who knew there was a Dublin in Texas!Interesting findings regarding the Yak. I agree 6 or fully open. I also will try both settings at HyperLobby.
I know that when I started playing IL-2FB (my first flight combat game) I didn't think I would ever learn CEM. After a while, and lots of reading later, I was thinking more about CEM then actual combat techniques (what few I knew
). A very good rule in life is KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Your advice Snoop is sound. But let me tell you mates, I had the coolest engines in HL, well until they were set on fire
. I guess a cool engine with lots of gas in the tank isn't much help to a dead pilot after all .Again, thanks for all the advice and encouragement last night. I think the Yak-3 and P-51 will get some practice off/online over the next couple of nights.
P.S. Willie - I accept your challenge about who can get shot down the fastest/most
.-
:FI:Falcon
- Full Metal Ferret
- Posts: 5572
- Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 6:32 am
- Location: New Orleans
- Contact:
There is a copy of EVERYTHING:FI:TacticalSkirmish wrote:Willie I thought you were from Ireland - who knew there was a Dublin in Texas!
in Texas.
Fal (LSU) con
"He who warned, uh, the British that they weren't gonna be takin' away our arms, uh, by ringing those bells, and um, makin' sure as he's riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells that we were going to be sure and we were going to be free, and we were going to be armed."
- The history of Paul Revere's midnight ride, by Sarah Palin.