Fighting Irish Forums

and here it is...

when a good thing comes along, EVERYONE wants to jump on the bandwagon. EVERYONE.

witness the latest round of BAND OF BROTHER ripps/copies.

sure, it was a great book, a great tv series, and no doubt even better in REAL LIFE! those guys were champs in every sense of the word and deserve our utmost respect and admiration. all WW2 vets do. or most of them anyway.

and yes, many of the guys thought of themselves as brothers. brothers in arms if not in blood. but hey, not ALL of them. and there in lies the rub.

i've had the good fortune to actually know MANY WWII vets. in the past, and even still do. i belong to the local VFW and there are still many WW2 vets that frequent it. i also know many through my father in law's friends and contacts, and from my own Army experience.

and hey, i've got to say it... yes, most WW2 vets that i know of, DO feel a kinship with other WW2 vets... or they do NOW. but back then, during the midst of war, and according to them in their own words... MOST NEVER GAVE IT A THOUGHT.

these are my own interpretations of their own thoughts and words to me down over the years. it was a VERY hectic time in their lives. most were very young, adventureous... many were scared near mindless. things happened fast, very fast. both the training and then later the combat. there was little time to sit around and dwell upon the BROTHERHOOD of soldiers, or at least as TV and movies, books, and video games would have us think.

sure, in their own unit/squad, there was a bonding of sorts, as people of close proximity and the same general likes and dislikes drifted together and became friends... as they always do, whether in the military or school or even at work... but often times, that was it. many i've talked to have told me that other than the few close members of their individual squad/unit, they seldom even knew or cared to know, the other men in their company/battalion/division. oh sure, they traveled with them, eat with them, partied with them...and surely fought with them in combat when called upon to do so, but for the most part, they never really knew them.

and few, very few indeed, must have actually sat around and contemplated how 'close' and 'brother-like' they all were as a whole. in fact, each individual soldier had his 'own' problems... either thoughts of back home and problems there... medical problems. or personal problems within his own unit, or between himself and other men there or the commanding officer (officers in general seemed to take up a lot of the men's thoughts and conversations...) girlfriends---from either back home or in the local area where they were fighting or stationed.... etc, etc.

many were apparently concerned with their own survival (naturally) and also perhaps the survival of their close friends in the unit... and yes, many were horrified when they saw 'other' fellow soldiers die... but then according to many that I have talked to, often they (out of mental survival) managed to disconnect themselves from the deaths. to be thankful (and at the same time ashamed for thinking it) that it 'wasn't' them that 'got' it.

war was chaos, according to those guys. not a lot of time nor energy to sit around and dwell. in fact, deep thinking was discouraged, for the deeper you thought about things, the more you became on edge. one could loose his nerve. and that could be fatal.

and here's the rant... though it was a nice thing to see once, in a few movies and TV series... the largely non-existant 'brotherhood' thing is becoming stale with EVERY new tv show/movie/video game trying to get on the bandwagon and proclaim it all over again. can you even see a war movie or play a video game now without the 'we fought together and we died together and we were all brothers' speal NOT taking up the first fifteen minutes of it?

gah!

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rant mode off.


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Salute!

Beowolff

good read m8. i once had the honor of working with a Vietnam Vet, he was a sniper. he didnt like to talk about that war, as you would imagine none of them do really. he said one night as he was stalking a high ranking vietcong command, admist all the shear terror of being scared to death of being killed or captured, with all seriousness he said " all i could think about at the moment was, CHEESEBURGERS!!!!"


just goes to show you what goes on in the mind of a soldier in the heat of battle.


DS

that's exactly right, death sledge....

from my own experience, and from talking to many, many others... little things like 'cheeseburgers' or girlfriends, or a beloved pet, or their car back home (was their little brother trashing it?) was on their minds a lot. many times, during the actual heat of battle.

i think it is some sort of mental escape mechanism... to help people during times of GREAT stress and fear.

or maybe not. hell i don't really know.

salute!

Beo

Good read Beowolf.

And I think you're probably right.
The brotherhood bit comes later with the survivors.
They have a shared experience that only they can understand.
The people who were not there have no idea what it was like to be there, and no amount of films,books,discussion or research can ever get anywhere near the actual experience.

I had an uncle who lived in the same village as me,who I though I knew quite well, and I only found out he fought in tanks in WW2 because my mother told me at his funeral.

I would have loved to have heard some of his stories but I guess he just never wanted to discuss it.

Well now Beo, I gonna take somewhat of a different approach to this. I can see your point of course, but from my own standpoint I don't think the general public can hear enough of the "brotherhood" thing when it comes to soldiering and what these guys go through. There's an element of the civilian population, I am sure you'll agree, that needs to have the importance of what soldiers sacrifice rammed through their thick skulls every day because Britney Spears, the Simpsons, and cell phone plans are being force fed via shotguns every time one turns around. It may grow old to guys like us and many vets because we know, but let's face it, there are a lot of stupid people out there, yes, stupid, who don't know the meaning of service or sacrifice. When I hear old vets talk about their experiences, and from my reading, the "brotherhood" thing really didn't extend beyond their unit, like you said. What was important is that it DID exist with the small unit. I don't think any soldier sat in their foxhole and wondered what the rest of the Division or even Battalion was doing. They were worried about themselves and their buddy a foot away from them.
If Hollywood wants people to think (the stupid ones again, I guess) that every soldiers thinks of every other soldier as a brother, then its probably the one decent thing friggin Hollywood can do. The guys it matters to tho, the vets, know the truth.

Damn, did I ramble that long?

Z

I agree with Beo pretty much. It is HAWLEY WOOD trying to cash in.

I know a LOT of vets. Not as many as I used to. The WWII and Korean vets are diminishing at an alarming rate.

When I was in high school, I knew some ol boys that were cousins. They went through the Pacific as Marines. I knew they were in WWII when I was in high school. They never mentioned their time in the Corp until I got back from Nam. It was then that I found out what they'd done and where they'd been. Both of them were pretty warped from what they did and saw. They learned that life was really pretty cheap. It doesn't take much to end one. I learned that a bit later as merc.

As far as the guys I merced with, I do NOT want to hear from any of them. We all had phony passports anyway. We were there, but we weren't THERE. I learned well from my uncle to not give any details of where I was from or who I really was. My uncle merced for 20 years. He was a tough bastard. He got killed in '73. I wish he'd been around to talk me out of my deal, or beat my ass till I decided to see it his way.

The deal I got into was screwed from the git go. It was a damn wonder any of us made it out to go somewhere else. I'm pretty sure the "orgnaizer" of that mess, didn't last long after a couple of the guys went to pay him a visit. I never looked back or checked up.

I can VIVIDLY relate to FORGOTTEN BATTLES in the truest sense of the phrase. Mine will stay forgotten for the most part.

When the skyte started happening, all I can remember is looking for another target to smoke. I don't remember the din and racket, it seemed like I was disconnected and working from a different level. I could feel the concussion and the muzzle blasts but there was very little noise. Total immersion? Berserker blood? I don't know.

When we reached a point of disengagement, the sounds came flooding back like a tidal wave. I heard my weapon making metallic tinking noises as it cooled, wind, and on one occasion, brush burning. I heard people moaning or screaming. Critters making racket about our making racket. I remember very vividly nearly busting a cap on a mate because he torched off from behind me at one of the "bad" guys that had jumped up to run. That was one of the loudest sounds I remember hearing in my life.

As far as brotherhood? Not for me, not with that bunch.

Nor did I have any particluar closeness with the guys I was in the Navy with. We drank together and chased girls etc, but when one of us left, he was gone. It's been over 30 years and there are only 2 guys that I knew that I still talk to on occasion.

Oh well, time for anudder pint or 4.

It's good to know what really happend, I think most people in the know, of any event coverd by hollywood will know that most of it will be to get attention and that it is done for just that reason, I don't mind a story that will keep me amused but when its a historical event thats being twisted it seems a bit wrong...
BTW thanks for the story guys, its nice to know what really goes on

Prozac anyone?

A pint will do fine.....

I know what you mean about having Mercs for friends Willie. I met a couple of real bad brothers in the early 90s that were so far gone there was no coming back. Life had no value to them (other than the monetary value) at all.... I removed myself from their company after they had told me their stories of Angola and Chad and getting paid by the 'right hand'..........

Peace my rempant individualists with common interests and well developed humour sense!

I like Mercs ...