Fighting Irish Forums

I think it would be a good idea to share with those who are interested the development of the following map.
The basic work has been done, which means target locations for each side with same numbers of location to the target.


(click to enlarge)

The battleground covers around 1/6th in the north-west of Bessarabia (140x140).
A flight at 350km/h takes 35min from the far north west point to the far south east point.
However this flight is theoretically. The action radius will be smaller as you can see on the sketch.
The map was created in historrically neighbourhood only, but the neighbour is already next house
I adapted the targets to our needs, that way the initial fronline covers a slightly different than it
was in april 1944.

I guess the sketch sais more than words, but I will nevertheless loose some to explain.

Red Cap and Blue Cap represent the target location to reach.
Red Cap must be taken by Red Army , Blue Cap must be taken by Blue Army ...surprise.
Red must capture location Targul Frumos and defend Iasi Airfield , Blue must capture Iasi Airfield and defend Targul Frumos.

The single depots for each side are marked.
A default depot spawns units by the chance of 1/3, awhile a main depot spawns at 2/3 chance.
You notice locations with numbers on the map. These numbers mark a route
vehicles can take.All in all all we got 4 more or less different routes named 1-8,1a-8a,1b-8b and 1c-8c. Each route got 8 locations to a single key location, either to capture a Cap zone or to defend the Cap zone from the enemy.

Basically an army has to take 3 location only to win.
This shall prevent a long lasting war as Moscow is.
However 3 location are not much, thus locations will be heavily defended on both sides by static defense positions to slow down enemy tank or air raids.
The tactis will probably be to defend own position at any front location and attack enemy positions ahead of own tank speerheads. Well at least sth like that.


There are several locations, which are still not connected to the road system, actually each of them without a number. Am still unsure how to deal with them.
On the one hand I dont want to blow the battleground, on the other side we will need an initial front situation (where the battle starts at mission 1) and I would like to keep intense fights off any key location at first.

Maybe a way via Leova An13 - KishinevAQ19 - Balti AK29 could be a solution.
In a further battle the route would serve to conquer airfields only, but got no important sense.Another approach would be to block the route after the battle got developed in direction of the cap zones.
Got no serious idea here atm, maybe you find one.

For now I can promise a much smaller mission file to load, so mission transfer times will be signifanctly decreasing.
The train routes are also done, but not implemented in the sketch for now.

Let your suggestions, questions and ideas come.

I am aswell still unsure about
- planeset (maybe US+UDSSR vs Rum + Germany)
- tankset
- where to place static trucks (oil and spawn rate)


TBC.

Suggestion Tankset

4-M4A2_76W 1
4-M4A2_76W 1
4-M4A2_76W 1
4-T34_85 1
4-T34_85 1
4-KV1 1
1-IS2 1
1-SU-85 1
1-SU-85 1
1-SU-76M 1
1-ZSU-37 1
1-ZSU-37 1





4-PzIVF2 2
4-PzIVF2 2
4-PzIVF2 2
4-PzIVJ 2
4-PzIVJ 2
4-PzIVJ 2
1-PzVIE 2
1-StuGIIIG 2
1-StuGIIIG 2
1-MarderIII 2
1-Nimrod 2
1-Nimrod 2

Yet nobody?

Anyhow, ... Nephris has sent me an invitation to join their Bessarabia test server on next Thursday evening. I'll try to be there just in case my better half let me do so. If anyone of you likes to join it I'll pass their TS server password to you. Maybe we can discuss then some things directly ...

I don't think many of us knows anything about the vehicles that were present in this area at the time, Nephris. That's my guess about why nobody has responded to your question.

Guys are curious to see how the plane set is shaping up though. Would you mind to post the proposed planeset here, and let us know which parts are "firm" already and which ones you are still trying to decide on?
Thanks!

The "beta planeset" and basement for discussions we used that thursday was

YAK_9D
LA_5F
IL_2Type3
PE2 SERIES110
B24J100Cf
P_38J
P_39N
P_47D22

BF_109G6Late
BF_109G6Erla
FW_190A6
BF_110G2
Do217_K1
JU_88A4
JU_87G1
ME_410A

Nephris,

just quick question related to the locations on the map you've presented here to us: why is location 4b a blue and not a red one? I guess you missed this one, didn't ye?

Here's the list of planes according to Yogy's Bessarabia PDF related to the Battle of Iasi in 1944 (first table) ...

VVS

• A-20
• IL-2
• La-5F(50% FN)
• P-39
• Pe-2
• Po-2
• Yak-1
• Yak-7
• Yak-9

LW & ARR

• Bf-109G
• Bf-109G-6/late
• Fw-190F-8
• Hs-129B2
• IAR-39
• IAR-81C
• Ju-87D-5
• Ju-87G
• Ju-88A-4
• Ju-88D-1

Talking about the USAAF aircraft Yogy stated this ...

Air action 1944

As already pointed out, there were some focus times for aerial warfare,
connected to ground actions. That means, that most actions are related to
tactical warfare.
Real bombers (level as well as divers) always came in groups of 9 or more,
subdivided in the 3-vic. They cruised at altitudes of ca. 2.000 to 4.000
meters. Mostly they were accompanied by escorts, smaller numbers on axis
side but on the same numerical level in case of the Red Air Force.
Ground attack planes usually flew in groups between 6 and 12 at levels below
2.500 meters.
Additionally there is a strategic component given by the USAAF throughout
the campaign, who flew B-17 and B-24 bombers and P51B and C as well as
P38J as escorts. The heavies came in combat boxes of 18 planes at altitudes
of ca. 5-7.000m with their little friends above them. These escorts
sometimes dropped down to do some strafing runs on the airfields of their
opponents while en route to the Ukraine.
Examples for historic missions during 1944:
On March 30, some Ju87D-5 and Ju87G from I./SG2 took of from Beresovka
(In the very East of our map) in order to attack T-34 which had disrupted the
railway line Iasi – Kishinev in the area between Ungheni and Cornesti Targ.

This is a distance of more then 200km to the West! During that mission, Mr.
Alwin Boerst (CO of I./SG2) was shot down and killed in his Ju87G.
Exactly 2 months later at 14:25, ten Airacobras from 100.GIAP took off in
Stefanesti to cover ground troops. In an altitude of only 4.000m, they
reportedly met a group of 18 Ju87, covered by two Fw190 and eight Bf109. A
fierce dogfight developed, and both sides lost two respectively three planes.
On that very day, JG52 filed 55 (sic!) claims, of which 38 were P-39’s…
The entire Staffel 6./JG52 took off for a Sternflug on June 24. After having
been lead to the bombers, the Staffel flew a head-on attack through a group
of bombers and was immediately dispersed. After that, Lipfert and his
wingman attacked a Liberator, setting on fire one after the other of its
engines until it fell near Stefanesti. Only 2 planes of the entire Staffel came
back to Gartenzaun (airfield) on that day. Other units were ordered to attack
the fighters, i.e. Erich Hartmann claimed a Mustang.

In the end we need to negotiate the planeset aswell as the ground vehicle set. I wouldn't set my focus on comparing the planes with each other because there's no doubt that they were obviously different in terms of engine, flight and weapon performances. I'm just asking for equal numbers of aircraft that will be able to fulfil their tasks (fighter/bomber interception, bombing, etc.)...

Gen "Hey! I'm just asking!" osse

why is location 4b a blue and not a red one? I guess you missed this one, didn't ye?

Location 4b is the initial front location, it has the value 0. One have to set a location as default where the battle begins. So that is also why the frontline doesnt occupy that location. You can see this process several times also on the running moscow map.
It is marked on the map blue, but if u check it in FMB a red & blue marker is on top of each other.
In this case the blue one is just top side.
If Il2&DCG could handle a neutral flag, it would be there instead.


I know the planeset given by Yogys documents aswell.
I would be fine by that one also tbh., but the La5FN is Olegs world only and beyond resonable limits imho

The planeset should be in a same frame, I guess the level we use in moscow is acceptable.
As most of =FI= comin from the west and some from the colonies, I imagine you would be interested to fly western allies aircrafts aswell here. Well Gen I could add a enemy captured Bf109G for ya only

One further thing,
I am interested in your opinion on the mission file size.
Are u bothered by larger files like 300kb and longer mission loading times, but with populated airfields and AAA or defense positions? The other solution would be to use more or less blank airfields, just functional.

Nephris wrote: Well Gen I could add a enemy captured Bf109G for ya only

Thanks for the offer Nephris but we captured a Hs 123 from Moscow and told Frank it is his exclusively from now on.




Regarding the proposed planeset, both sets are workable. Flying USAAF aircraft would be nice I feel and likewise I can understand blue pilots wish to fly the fighter version of the 190A. However a few thoughts and suggestions on fighters mainly(I'll let the bomber/ground attack boys comment on them)-

-If the Fw190 A-6 fighter is in, an early P51B or C for red I'd suggest.

-Likewise if the only 190 is to be the ground attack F as in Gen's list then the p47 razorback suggested .

-Agreed on Olegs La5FN but the G6 Erla seems to be an HSFX version of the same disease? That must be one magic canopy! Are we not using 4.12 anyhoo?
If a better 109 is thought to be required how about a boosted model- say a few G14's?

- The ME 410(rather than 210) is another one of those mod planes that I recall dominated servers, fast and agile, dogfighting at 7k with fighters, robot gunners with laser weapons and firepower to down a heavy bomber in a pass. Likewise they were removed. Might be different now but worth a check.

- I recall the Yak 9D has recently been turned into a complete dog. Huge fuel tanks and possibly now correct for that. Perhaps a basic Yak 9, leave out all together or the big cannon Yak 9T. I'll check again though.

- Which brings me nicely to my last point. Loadout. Will Axis planes have the MK 108 30mm cannon loadout option in Bessarabia?. If not the B24 Liberator might be too strong, if yes the rest of reds bombers will soon be confetti! I have a feeling this is more important than the planes themselves actually.

Just thoughts. I'll give it a try whatever is decided. If the planeset proves unbalanced too much it can be altered later I guess.

S!

G

Edit - I tried the Yak 9D and it seems fine? I recall people on a server compaining about it and it's dropping a wing and stall into a turn. But it was OK in the test much like any other mid war Yak.

We could always fly Blue ?

There is La5f ,so i see no reason for a early P51,even if there is a Fw190.
The 109g6erla is in same range as the yak9d, dont see the concerns here, u probably mean the AS version?
For sure we need to limit some weapons,the mk108 aswell as some of the nuclear Il2 weapons.
Awhile blue needs 4 attempts for a tank column where each bomb must hit in close range the Il2 just needs one attempt.
As for 410 I See the concerns , but it is the only blue ac with capable ammo, however if we limit and balance the ammo i guess we come around there again.

We can switch on 4.12 as soon as a mod version is adapted,or we need to fly completely without mod, which then should be decided democratically.Btw that was also one of the question i posted a few weeks ago .

Nephris wrote:We can switch on 4.12 as soon as a mod version is adapted,or we need to fly completely without mod, which then should be decided democratically.Btw that was also one of the question i posted a few weeks ago .

He ... he's right! I was there and I truely heard it.

I've been fiddling around with 4.12.1 recently ... testing some QMB missions and trying to get the hang out of the lately improved AI. If we could relinquish the mod aircraft I wouldn't mind flying with the vanilla ones only which would be ...

VVS

• A-20G
• IL 2 Type3
• LA-5F/FN
• P38 J
• P39 N
• P47 D22
• P51 C-NT
• PE2 SERIES110
• YAK-9(D)

LW & AAR

• BF_109G6(Late)
• BF_110G2
• FW_190A6/8
• JU_88A4
• JU_87G1
• HS_129B2
• He_111H6
• IAR_81C

The accuracy of given data is not guaranteed.

This is just a suggestion. Would this planeset fit into the idea of campaign we all do have or should we keep the mod's aircraft?

Gen "I know I'm a pain in the a**e!" osse

The question is, what improvements would 4.12.1 bring over modded 4.11.1 if any, I like the idea of going with the unmodded 4.12.1.



Vin

-In my experience a FW190A-6 has little to worry about with an La5F. Faster at all altitudes unless low and slow the 190 can simply disengage at will. The early P-51 ( which flew at Bessarabia )matches the A-6 well (which apparently didn't) and why you often see them matched together in servers, even if the firepower is different,manouverability is similar, speed the USAAF plane edges and it tends to balance out.

-You are right Nephris regarding the Bf109Erla and the Yak9D, my mistake,sorry about that!

-I tested the 410a using both the 1MK103 and the BK 37 loadouts one pass was enough each time to down a B-24, and that's a very tough bomber!. With default weapons versus two AI ace La5F's ( they are dumb I know) they always lost. However one removed one engine from the 410 and smoked the other but I still kept flying well enough for several minutes to shoot it down. Mod plane and not quite right frankly as has been found before. It did overheat at least!

So I agree with Genosse and Ardmore keep it to vanilla 4.12. and make the planeset from that. Genosse's list is a good place to start with 4.12. Needs tweaking towards blue I think but there or thereabouts.

I added to the Campaign Site an area with several polls, as some decisions need to be done as democratic as it can get imho.Collection opinions in forums can be a bit chewy aswell sometimes, so it is maybe easier for some to just klick but posting an opinion.The polls will run until a certain dealine and the result will affect directly the campaign.
Of course one need to register his username, if there are any concerns, I can create certain user in the backend and mail the login details. In this case pls PM me here.
Pls use your server ingame nick while registration.