TACTICS SCHOOL: A Joint Effort

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

Some info on fuel injection engines, I thought I'd post it here to add to this little knowledge base:

LEXX_Luthor
posted 08-02-04 13:25
Cannot restart these engines in earlier FB versions, you need later Patches beginning with...just get Patch 1.22

To restart engine dive so your speed is greater than ~200km/hr. May take more than one try. Give it time to re~start. Watch engine guages.

I~16 same thing--restart above ~200km/hr. Hurricane suffers cut out too but can restart engine at any speed. The speed thing is why both player and AI I~153 and I~16 cannot start engines on the ground outside the official FB airports. They need special starter (not shown).

That explains why sometimes my engine wouldn't restart.

s!
Snoop

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

A nother good link from the UBI forums. This is a link to the book "TWELVE TO ONE - Fighter Combat Tactics in the SWPA"

Basically a collection of tactics from the US pilots fighting in the pacific. Just started reading it and it's pretty cool

http://home.earthlink.net/~jimdoss/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

s!
Snoop

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

Some tips on the FW series from the UBI forum. A lot of it applies to similar planes or when you find yourself having to employ similar tactics against a more nimble oponent say a P11

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc ... m=22810009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-As far as gunnery goes, make sure to use the rudder for last second corrections or to swing your nose to the side for a snap shot because you will be making alot of high speed passes. I CAN'T emphasize this enough as this is often overlooked.

-I keep prop pitch at 100% all of the time for maximum performance. The difference in max speed and in climb are significant.

-I keep radiator set to "auto" most of the time. I'll "close" it if I need to escape or quickly catch an opponent at maximum speed, or if I simply need MAX performance (even in climb). I leave my radiator set to "open" when cruising around searching for opponents, no need to build unnecessary heat.

-As far as throttle goes remember this; Less Throttle = More Forgiveness. I usually keep my throttle pinned during combat, but I'll shut it down a little in extreme dives to cool my BMW/Jumo a little. Also, when performing Hammerheads I back it down quite a bit as the newly modelled engine torque will swing you around a little at the peak of your maneuver. I find that decreasing throttle at the VERY PEAK will make your "flip over" and transition much easier. This includes your hard pull-up (if needed to line up your shot on the now dead in the water pursuer) when you are rapidly accelerating after your hammerhead. Again, less throttle = more forgiveness.

-Don't fly around at 110% throttle when stalking for opponents. Again, no need for unecessary heat.

-Flaps can give you a little boost in turning but I only use this in an emergency or when your opponent is wounded or being lazy. Sometimes flaps can also help in vertical maneuvers as far as stability is concerned. You can perform them quicker and suprise your opponent, but you will bleed much more speed.

-As you may have seen 100 times, don't turn & burn when flying the 190 (usually). Keep your speed very high and grab for altitude like it was money hanging on a tree at the welfare office. You can always trade speed for altitude but when you bleed energy it's gone. After the merge I almost always go straight vertical, just don't do it too soon or you butt will be perforated. Fight in the vetical often when there are fewer combatants, and use hit & run tactics with use of gentle combat turns when your energy advantage is high or there are numerous combatants.

-Use the 190's excellent all-around vision in full-difficulty servers. You may not be able to see out of the front but otherwise your vission is very good. Keep your eyes peeled, the 190 is an excellent stalker with good speed and excellent firepower.

-Head-ons are somewhat acceptable in the 190A, you have excellent firepower with a good spread and a tough radial engine.

-Use your superior roll-rate when caught at a disadvantage. A turn in one direction followed by a diving turn in the opposite direction can be very difficult to follow. You can also go into an extreme dive (don't dive straight and level) and do a quick half roll and hard pull-out at low level. Most planes cannot follow this maneuver and I have used it successfully many times. Either your opponent will have inferior roll which will not allow him to perform the half-roll at the end, or he will not have the elevator response to pull out in time. The 190 has great elevator response, rolls very fast, and use of the rudder can make it even faster (as with all planes). Use these advantages.

-The 190 dives fairly well and seems to accelerate quickly. Keep this in mind when performing maneuvers, offensive or defensive.

-Learn high speed gunnery, it differs from slower turn & burn type gunnery. In t&b you make alot of very high deflection shots and fire alot when turning at steep angles of attack. In high speed gunnery you will find you need to anticipate further ahead where your opponent will be. Try to predict where he will be when you arrive and make adjustments earlier instead of last second. Anticipation is important in 190 flying. I recommend setting up a QMB with you in an A5 or A-9 against some I-16's or Hurricanes. The difference in speed will teach you high speed gunnery if flown correctly. Fly 4 vs 6 or something similar, as 1 vs 1 fights (not a strength of the 190) will result in you going in the vertical constantly. Learn to jump planes preoccupied with someone else.

-Which brings me to my last point. USE YOUR WINGMEN. This is very important to 190 flyers. The 190 is not a good 1 vs. 1 plane, it is an awesome 4 vs. 4 plane. Learn to pick off pursuers of wingmen and instruct other wingmen to do the same. With comms the 190 is awesome as your wingman can let you know when someone has broken pursuit, allowing you to become the pursuer.

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

Stop Reading MarkShot's STK/EAW SnoopBaron!

Been thinking about our engagement on Wednesday Snoop, when you flew with the German AI and picked on poor Tactical

Of course assuming your plane was piloted by an AI I gave up a lot of energy for an angle shot. You, on the other hand, climbed, then faked BnZ me several times to get me turning and losing more E Then did you proceed with a high yo-yo then turn as prescribed in pp.69-70, or did you get a shot (can't remember - under therapy at the moment ).

Should have side stepped your fake BnZs, climbed, built E, and possibly got you to commit to a turnfight - P39/40 slightly better then German plane, right?

You were flying a P51 and I was flying a FWD9. I think these planes are pretty even and even similar (both high speed inlines). I prefer the P51 simply because I've flown it so much more but the D9 is atleast as good.

I wouldn't say that the P39/40 are slightly better than the German planes. They are both good planes but there are German planes that I think are superior to both those models especialy the P40. To do a real comparison you have to pick some specific German plane models (usualy each plane will have atleast one thing that it is better at than the oponent plane).

I did a combination of high and low yo yos to keep you in front of my wingline while building up an energy advantage. I also took some snap shots to try and keep you turning more than you had to

What would you have done in my situation, besides claiming to be from the Red Cross a mean (I think only Helo bought that line anyhow)?

Run

Seriously, I would have extended a bit more using the excellent cockpit visibility to keep the D9 in sight. Then worked on an energy advantage before cashing it in for a kill .

I would also think about what advantages my plane (P51D) had over the D9. The D9 with boost is faster than the P51 at most alts. But it's close enough that if you have better engine management than the enemy you might be able to get more speed out of your plane. Bellow ~320kph the P51 has a nice turn advantage with combat flaps on. Bellow ~370kph the P51 and D9 are pretty even. Above 370 the D9 has the advantage. The P51 has a climb advantage. The D9 has a roll advantage, but the P51s roll rate is not bad at all and doesn't get crappy at high speeds). This is all according to IL2 compare so take it with a grain of salt. Obviously you can't bring up IL2 compare in a middle of a fight. But it's a good idea to spend some time comparing planes with it and comparing it to what you notice flying them and fighting them online.

So assuming this is true. You should be able to out climb your opponent given equal energy state. So you could try and win the fight by more effectively storing your E as alt. Or if that doesn't seem to work you could try and take the fight to lower speeds for more of a turn fight. The first approach is safer so I would try that first. Getting slow can be very dangerous especialy if there is a chance of additional enemy planes showing up. Normaly I'm not to scared of slowing up a bit if I have to in a p51 if I have enough altitude to dive for speed. But the D9 can keep up with the P51.

I will be picking up Robert Shaw's book from our local library in a couple of days. If I like it I'll probably order a copy from Chapters. I understand it to be well illustrated.

This post should have gone under Tactics School thread, feel free to quote this and respond there Snoop. By the way, is Energy Fighting a natural progression of most pilots or are there folks who remain angle fighters but become better with that approach?

Great, I think you should get your own copy . At first I didn't like it very much but I really just wasn't ready for it but after I got some experience and started reading the book I was quite pleased with it .

Energy Fighting does not exclude angle fighting, but it goes beyond just angle fighting. There is no doubt that if you want to get better you have to be an energy fighter. If all you know how to do is angle fight you will be at a disadvantage to some one who knows how to angle fight as part of his larger energy fighting tactics. The same applies to someone who only knows how to boom and zoom.

Don't think of energy fighting as just trying to have more energy than your oponent but as away to make tactical decisions as to how best to use your energy state and potential and that of the enemy to win a fight.

Now don't get me wrong there is more to fighter tactics than just energy fighting, for example team tactics. But energy fighting should be a part of every fighter pilots fighting skills.

s!
Snoop

[:FI:TacticalS!]

Very informative reply - thanks Snoop! Do you actually know and remember all this stuff, let alone have the ability to patiently apply it under game pressure? . . . . me too

"Run " (Snoop Baron) - If I only had the skill to wipe away this bad emoticon in your post matie!

If you recall, with Willie's turn fight I began by turning upwards to increase E (altitude) and since my speed was still good, didn't use flaps or force a shot and lose any more E. If it hadn't been for that AAA gun, I was slowly creeping on his tail and should have been able to cash in that extra E (altitude) for a shot another turn or two. I haven't compared the two planes in IL2 Compare, but probably my little German plane was a better turner in any event.

It wouldn't have been long ago that my turn would have been to descend, build speed and try for a belly shot. A better player would have evaded the shot by climbing and eventually got onto my 6. For some reason even now I tend to turn downwards - I must concentrate to turn flat or upwards (better). Just a mechanical thing with my coordination and stick I imagine.

Regards

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

Very informative reply - thanks Snoop! Do you actually know and remember all this stuff, let alone have the ability to patiently apply it under game pressure? . . . . me too

I don't remember all these details when in the game only some of them or some only at a more fuzzy level (for example, maybe not the exact speed 320kph but "slow speed"). But after comparing planes frequently in IL2 compare, running test in QMB, and keeping track of how things work out online you do start to build some of this information in your brain and you can apply it while playing. It's very helpful to have even a general idea of how your enemy's plane performs compared to yours in different situations. Who can you out dive, when can you out turn them, who climbs better than you, etc.

So the first thing is just to remember the information (even if vaguely or simplified) then you have to force yourself to think about it and use it in the middle of a fight (not an easy thing to do when your heart is pumping). This takes time and discipline. I'm stilll working on getting better at this. But you need to think when you fight. In time some of this thinking will turn into "instinct" but that won't happen right away. I think the term is OODA loop: Obersve, Orient, Decide, and Act loop. The fighter pilot who can do this faster than his opponent (while still making good decisions) has an advantage.

If you recall, with Willie's turn fight I began by turning upwards to increase E (altitude) and since my speed was still good, didn't use flaps or force a shot and lose any more E. If it hadn't been for that AAA gun, I was slowly creeping on his tail and should have been able to cash in that extra E (altitude) for a shot another turn or two. I haven't compared the two planes in IL2 Compare, but probably my little German plane was a better turner in any event.

Yeah I saw that, that darn tank got a lucky shot and blew your plane up with one clean shell!! I think you would have had him

It wouldn't have been long ago that my turn would have been to descend, build speed and try for a belly shot. A better player would have evaded the shot by climbing and eventually got onto my 6. For some reason even now I tend to turn downwards - I must concentrate to turn flat or upwards (better). Just a mechanical thing with my coordination and stick I imagine.


Regards

Yeah in general people are to quick to blow their E. Don't do a low turn unless the enemy is getting away from you and you need to cut his circle. I agree I think after a while it will be more instinctive to turn up rather than turn down.

What's really great about air combat is that there is so much room for improvement and so many things to learn. I feel that we are constantly being challenged to get better and better . A lot of what I say is easier said than put in practice. You can read all the air combat docs and know them like the back of your hand but what is really needed is to practice, practice, and then some more practice. And while you practice keep forcing yourself to use what you read even if at first it is less effective than the tried and true tactics you are already familiar with.

s!
Snoop

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

Another set of articles on air combat (haven't read them yet, but heard good things about them, there was even a small book published based on them):

How to Live and Die in the Virtual Sky, by Dan "Crash" Crenshaw

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/acmintro.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

s!
Snoop

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

Here is an idea I had while reading about aircombat. Pilots sometimes use plane motions to communicate for example: wing rocking and porposing (rocking plane up and down).

This is useful when you don't have a radio or it's not working.

My idea is when flying information to use wing rocking when signaling that an enemy has been spotted instead of using TS when you are on the same channel as the opponents. Also, if playing without TS wingrocking might be a good alternative (if discussed before hand to trying to type while flying).

You can even take it a little further. For example wing rocking when enemy is spotted flying bellow and porposing when flying above current altitude, etc.

For this to be effective you have to agree upon it a head of time and fly in formation. The best formation would be line abreast but that can be hard to do due to lack of peripheral vision. So you can use an echelon formation. If you spot an enemy and are in the rear you can fly infront of the leader to make sure he sees your signal. If the enemy is close you might be forced to just use comms or chat.

s!
Snoop

[:FI:Heloego]

Short of changing to a different channel, it seems to be a great idea.

Thanks Snoop!

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

Thanks Helo Next time I'm flying with you I'll be sure to check for a pair of wiggling rockets

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

The new curriculum for this Wednesday (February 18, 2004) will be wingman and division tactics against the AI using coops. If the training goes well I plan to do this for atleast the next couple of Wednesdays. Divisions will be composed of pairs of wingmen. We will try and pick a "dedicated" wingman for everyone to practice with so you two will really learn to work well as a team. Pair up with this person unless they are not available. The settings will be the same as in the past except that externals will be enabled. Do not use externals during any combat. It is enabled only as a training tool (also to help pass the time after getting shot down ). I'll have pre-generated a set of coop missions with different circumstances for example:

2 FI vs 2 AI (rest of us spectate)
4 FI vs 4 AI (rest of us specate)
Many FI vs Many Ai

Fast plane FI vs Slow but manuverable AI
Slow but manuverable FI vs Fast plane AI
Alt advantage FI vs Alt disadvantage AI
Alt advantage AI vs Alt disadvantage FI

You get the picture .

I think these training sessions have been a lot of fun. Here is a chance to try doing this a little bit more systematicallyand rigorously. All though it will be a bit more strict than our usual nights I think it will be a lot of fun and rewarding. Also, good wingman and division training is only possible when flying with human beings this is not the kind of training you can do very well with the AI.

If you see me in Hypper Lobby and the coop has already started and you want to join in on the fun then you can start FB stand alone then go to multiplayer and enter snoopbaron.dnsalias.com for the server IP. Once you are in the coop do not disconnect at the end of the mission as I can run multiple coops without going back to Hypper Lobby.

Hope to see you there especialy you Wednesday night regulars

s!
Snoop
Ps. Helo please try not to shoot Tact with any rockets tomorrow as he is going to be my wingman

Ps. Ps. I normaly get home around 7:30PM Texas time server should be up by 8PM Texas time (CST)

[:FI:Heloego]

We ran Snoops missions 02.18.04 evening and they were GREAT!

[:FI:TacticalS!]

Sorry I was unable to make our Wednesday's training session, sounded really interesting

Regards,

Tact!

[:FI:Snoop Baron]

I hear ya m8, you missed a great time. But I'll be doing this again this Wednesday and if Helo and you show up plus one more person we will have a full division of four and we can try some new tactics around that. (Check out "fluid four" in Shaw's book)

s!
Snoop

[:FI:RULES]

Damnd,damned or how ever you spell it....
´tis sad that the time difference is blocking my participation.....
ARSE...
Oh,by the way sounds greate m8´s,
Oh,one more thing...IT´S FRIDAY....BEER FOR EVERYONE....