The ongoing JG42 war

[1.JaVA_Jojo]

ok...steam is off again.. we go for next week

[:FI:Genosse]

. I then went on to pursue the remaining Bf. He was climbing, i was following.
Then Nephris (in that Bf) chatted that I was not proper flying, telling me that "a IL2 should never pursue a Bf in a climb"

So.... we found our new Blenheim then?

Hahaha!

But who knows?

[:FI:Armitage]

Nephris can I have the mission and log files for all of the missions I have flown?

I'd like to setup a little website with all of the mission details including all of the all unknowns correctly marked.

Why you ask ? well I want to change my Ground Targets destroyed from 29 to 88 which is much better!

[Nephris]

Yes sure.
I cant provide the ones before we changed to MDS/ before 10.02, as my eventlog got cleared afgter starting the dogfight mode.

However we still got the results of each coop mission linked in our forums.
We played ccop from 13.01 to 03.02.

Intel Data for 28.04
Soviet forces are concentrated around Istra (R-14).
German forces are concentrated around Vyazma (D-7).
German forces are concentrated around Znamenka (L-9).
Soviet forces are concentrated around Golitzyn (S-11).
Reports indicate that there is intense fighting at Uvarovka Airstrip (K-10).
Heavy fighting reported at Iznoski

Map and stuff is up2date.

[Graf Zahl]

Greetings, beloved enemies!

First I like to thank all of you for the good times and fair fights in the Moscow Campaign.
The guys and me had a lot of fun in this campaign so far!

From what I have read in this thread I understand you are also a bit more 'laid back' and don't take flying too serious. Great thing - we don't appreciate all these Ersatz-Hartmanns and Reserve-Pokryshkins as well.

Except Mr. Mikester. Yes. You are just over the top. Shooting down 5 Messerschmitts in one flights is not cool. Those things are expensive...Daimler wants a lot of Reichsmarks for every engine. So please tone it down little in the future.


On a more serious note: Last Sunday we (the blue pigs or Il-2 Club...we are at the moment finding a new name for ourselves) for first time had extensive fighter vs. fighter engagements above Uvarovka area. Towards the end of the mission I was circling high above Uvarovka airfield when I found an enemy fighter deep below. I engaged and attacked but when I reached him he had already landed and had almost stopped. He quickly despawned when I strafed his plane so I am sure it was a human pilot (don't remember but it was probably a Yak).
So to shorten this story: In the heat of the moment I vulched one of you guys. It was a fighter and it was the airfield closest to the front line. The plane was undamaged beforehand as far as I can tell - and maybe even afterwards...
I don't think I would have attacked a bomber / ground attack plane or somebody visibly limping home.
Nevertheless, this was some kind of an 'unfriendly' act and I would like to know how your view is towards vulching in general.

I would like to maintain the relaxed atmosphere in this event. So I think we can easily make a gentleman's agreement here.


Concerning the flight this evening: We would definitely want to fly with you. At the moment I am not sure about our numbers.
Considering we might be fewer pilots than normal and that we have no idea about map, mission or planeset I would like to propose the following idea:
Let us mix up our pilots for this event.
I think it would be a nice opportunity to get to know each other at least bit. And since 'mixing' is problematic in the ongoing campaign, this little extra-war seems like a good opportunity.
Please let me know what you think about it.

Ether way we are going to be in Sturmovik TS at 2000 hours waiting for our pick up!

Cheers!

Graf Zahl

[:FI:Genosse]

I think it would be a nice opportunity to get to know each other at least bit. And since 'mixing' is problematic in the ongoing campaign, this little extra-war seems like a good opportunity.
Please let me know what you think about it.

Ether way we are going to be in Sturmovik TS at 2000 hours waiting for our pick up!

Cheers!

Graf Zahl

Hello Count Number! :P

It's good to see you on these boards and I promise to you that the boys won't bite you ... can't claim this for Pike but who knows how he will react anyway.

I think the chap who landed onto the frontline's closest airfield was me. I saw you diving down on me and thought - since I was already landed - it'd be a very good time to go for a pint and leave you alone ...

Talking about vulching - strafing and not bombing of aircraft sitting on the field - I'd personally consider this as bad sportsmanship. Legitmate action in a real life war but not in the sim world. In any online war I've flown so far - not so many I've to admit - vulching was prohibited and I'd like to keep it this way.

Apart of this I don't mind mixing up teams tonight. The only issue I see might be the language barrier but I'm sure that we'll find a way to sort this out, don't ye think?

Bis später!

[Graf Zahl]

Hello comrade!

...I think the right 'translation' would be Count von Count, if I remember correctly.

About Vulching:
First: Sorry!
Second: I appreciate your clear words & your attitude towards it. No more vulching for me. Of course also no liability for some bombs going astray...


I am looking forward to our flight. The language issue should not be such a problem. At least the German comrade here can understand the gibberish I'm writing.
I may not be able to use this Angels, Bandits and Winchester* talk, but I'm sure I will understand 'normal' English. And maybe you will even understand me!


*We are more the 'Haifisch am Gartenzaun' kind of guys...


See you soon!

GZ

[:FI:Armitage]

Talking about vulching - strafing and not bombing of aircraft sitting on the field - I'd personally consider this as bad sportsmanship. Legitmate action in a real life war but not in the sim world. In any online war I've flown so far - not so many I've to admit - vulching was prohibited and I'd like to keep it this way.

I'm the opposite. While a the game is a Sim we are playing a online War. The aim of the game in this case is to win the war. One way that helps us reach our goal is by reducing the enemy planes especially those in short supply.

If this means I have to vulch then I'll vulch. Enemy fighters shouldn't alive near a friendly airfield and if so well then you take your chances.
So I'm all for Vulching in the online war. (I've killed at least one human opponent doing this and several ai planes on the ground)

[:FI:Blue2]

Gotta weigh in here since this little topic has annoyed me for a while.
First a disclaimer: I always try to follow the rules; haven't vulched in the Moscow campaign & won't be doing it!
However, I've never understood why so many in the IL-2 community consistently DISCOURAGE behavior (in a combat simulation no less) that would be regarded as exemplary, highly courageous & resourceful behavior in RL combat... something all sides did whenever they could, often paying a price.

I totally agree with Armitage. When simulating a war, any valid combat tactics that are or were legitimate elements of warfare SHOULD be permitted if you can simulate them reasonably, IMHO. To me it's just a matter of realism & immersion. No pilot in a combat zone could ever afford to relax or get lazy. Outlawing "vulching" encourages exactly that. I can see it being ruled out under some specific circumstances (ex: purpose is specific to training... such as dogfight training, bombing training, landing training, etc.). But seems silly to me for online wars.

This is only an "easy" kill if the victim's choices/actions make it so. Otherwise it's the end result of good timing, skillful flying, sometimes careful planning, a lengthy flight time, and luck, to mention a few. The attacker has also measured risks (AAA, capture, increased vulnerability to other nearby fighters, etc.) versus the potential reward of the kill & decided to take the chance on surviving this high-risk attack.

Good sportsmanship is an excellent quality & has its place in all sports & most games I play, but war isn't a sport IMO. Maybe this just comes down to whether you consider yourself "playing a sport/game" when flying a combat sim, or whether you think of it as "immersing yourself into a simulation of combat." Neither point of view is wrong - just different. It's up to the host to take his preferred position & the rest should honor his choice.... but if asked I'll always say "if it's war, fly it that way!"

[Graf Zahl]

Hello gentlemen!

...so to cut a potentially long and fruitless discussion short, it's down the every single pilot's attitude again.

I won't be very upset when somebody smashes my broken & battered plane right before touchdown. And I'm sure my fellow pilots can also take it or alternatively have tissues ready.

And when the tables are turned, I'm going to do whatever feels right.

See you on Sunday!

GZ

[:FI:Gadje]

In past wars it was ruled out because of the progressively bad feelings between teams it generated. Some fighter squads did little else than sit out of range of base flak and wait for landing planes at the end of the mission. Forums then filled with hate.
This is a war simulation I know but allowing vulching is a timebomb lads. As far as I am aware nobody flying as JG42 has invaded my country, killed my missus or more importantly had relations with my farm animals. As I cannot then pretend to hate my opponents better to sacrifice a bit of the reality of war for maintaining bonhomie between playing pilots.

I know I haven't played this war much but I fully intend to each week I can. The atmosphere between teams seemed great, more early WW1 where we S! and might let a damaged plane RTB than kill at any cost. We all want to win but let's keep it friendly and enjoyable doing that.

S!

[:FI:Armitage]

The problem with not allowing Vulching is the limited number of certain planes. If someone is damaged, limps home and lands then the plane is available in the next mission.

As there are forward air bases that are often fought over by ground forces and change sides regularly (air base J5) a damaged plane could make it to one of those bases. If I happen to be in the area attacking ground targets and I see the enemy coming in to land I will attack. (Its a war sim!)

How do I know when not to attack ? When landing lights are on, wheels down (what happens if undercarriage destroyed) etc ?.

Better to just allow it.

Two weeks ago I was around K10 coming home to land and was attacked by a H129. I broke off the landing and engaged and lost. But before I lost if vulching wasn't allowed could I just turned on my lights and said you can't attack me any more, wait until the H120 flys away and the attack him ?

I know its a game but Vulching ensures you are alert throughout the game. So far I know of only 2-3 incidents of vulching since the war started.

[Nephris]

Hi folks,
after being back form short holidays and the amazing match yesterday FcBayern vs Barca in the Alliance Arena,I took the remianing time to make snow melt at the front of Moscow.
This is the "changelog" about all changes made while painting the map green. Plz tell me if I forgot sth or if you cant deal with this or that or if you miss sth else.Up to friday evening I can still do some minor changes. However, we will move on from same position as we left at 14th april. Frontline is up-2-date and posted as usual to our forums (use my signature).

- summer texture change on map & objects
- removed some trees around airfields & taxi ways
- removed trees from taxi at M5
- removed (hopefully) all objects within a spawn radius
- added Beacons and Lorenz/AMF to certain airfields
- added conquerable Beacons to front location Iznoski Airfield & Uvarovka Airfield
- bomb crates on airstrips/taxi should now work (5 x 80sec before despawn)
- deactivated number of pilots shown at spawnfields on the map
- KI radio should be deactivated now
- airfield lights on request available (not meaning the 2 fires beside an airfield)
- vectoring to airfield on request deactivated.


Next war date is this sunday 28th april at 20h met.
Server will be locked to 25 pilots to guarantee enough server perfromance, as we reached the maximum last time with 30 pilots.
CRT2 will be active , using HSFX only.
Skin Download deactive (global skinpack use) due lag issues while skin transfer over network.

The server will be running tonight from 20-21h on CRT2 and HSFX loaded only.
If you would like to check your Installation for CRT2 resistance, you are welcome for a quick connection test.The server adress is same as usual. A small defaul map of few kb size will be running.Timeout errors give hints for a corrupt installation.




Did you came to any conclusion due vulching or not.
Although I am personally no fan of vulching, I can understand the pro arguments.
I think it just important to have an agreement with all pilots, doesnt matter if pro or contra vulching.

As bomb craters hopefully will work now (MDS features werent implemtented b4), I guess
bombing an airstrip will probably cause more damage to landing planes than vulching could do.

[:FI:Blue2]

Hope you had a nice time on holiday, Nephris! I need one 'o those!!

Everything sounds good for Sunday - thanks again for your continued excellent work. Will try to join that server shortly.
- Edit - Just looked again.... guess I missed the time window to try & join... too early for this side of the water, but no problem.

- deactivated number of pilots shown at spawnfields on the map

Ich verstehe nicht! Maybe Frank or Mike can explain this one - don't worry about it.

- KI radio should be deactivated now

What's a "KI" radio?

As for the "vulching" topic, I think we were just tossing it around ~ just discussing it, that's all.
This is YOUR campaign, mate. You did all the work. You're hosting it. We are grateful guests. IMO the rules we follow are also yours to decide. Like Armitage mentioned, it has rarely happened so far in this campaign anyway. As mentioned I have no objection to it, but if it's something that causes bad feelings for some guys then I'd rather leave it out & keep it fun for all.

[:FI:Genosse]

- deactivated number of pilots shown at spawnfields on the map

Ich verstehe nicht! Maybe Frank or Mike can explain this one - don't worry about it.

Hey Larry,

I think Nephris meant the numbers shown on the briefing map after the mission's been loaded and pilots already have picked an aifield: the amount of pilots based there are displayed on the right hand side of it.

- KI radio should be deactivated now

What's a "KI" radio?

I assume that's the radio chatter of the AI ("Künstliche Intelligenz" = artificial intelligence).

I hope I got him right ...