Fighting Irish Forums

I think we should change everything to how it is now. We should alter all stats to the current format and substitute the numbers to the quantities now in effect. The existing procedure can be completely modified to adapt contemporary data to the input now in place. The previous system will be rewritten and supplanted with a new classification combination similar to the current model. The new scheme will use a more logical philosophy that can be compared directly to matching parallel present day doctrine.

Well ... that's how it works in Louisiana anyway.


Falcon

Falcon, I just showed your post to my supervisor. Look we need someone with your abilities to write so clearly. Would you consider packing your bags and coming up north to work in the Canadian government?

Gadje I don't know where you got this crazy idea from , but if Genosse threatens to stop doing those wonderful slideshows and . . . wait a minute mate, I see Noter coming and he looks pretty upset! There's just no talking to the lad now that he won that award.

Tact - "two-face" - S!

:FI:Gadje wrote:'We need to change the SCS´s stats page completely for this project '

you lost me there Gen!

If we do without stats the page gets removed! if we keep the stats for competitive coops with 2 teams it would work much the same perhaps with the addition of which colour you fly for in the campaign.
Of course if we change nothing then page stays as is.

So unless I'm missing something doesn't stat collecting get easier this way

No, I don´t think that I lost you there, G! After most of the chaps said "Yeah!" to your idea I just wanted to face you with a "Nea, but ...!". That´s all ...

My ribbons, my medals...I wanted a fighter expert ribbon ..

Guess we could eliminate that and come up with teamwork ribbons or flight ribbons based on those points. The problem is teaming up with the same guy all the time. Yeah...that won't work...

Honestly I'm fine either way. I'll admit I like my points and keeping track of how I've done and comparing my stats to the others. But I don't feel like I fly for the stats (hope those I've flown with feel the same). I've been focusing on survivng and helping my squad mates stay alive. If I can get a kill along the way great.

Started to fly in terms of the mission and squad. If I get good hits on a bandit and he breaks away, I'll let 'em go, he's done either way and can't help his buddies. I used to follow him and make sure he was dead, but now I form back up and stick with the mission. Just my attitude towards it.

Noter

Excellent attitude Noter.

I know lots of mates like the stats and in the best case use them only for a personal reference. It would be tough to see them go,

and an even tougher decision to decide to keep them or remove them;

especially the (number of missions since last death) stat.


F

Great post Noter! You and Genosse are probably two perfect examples of why we should be able to enjoy personal stats (feedback) without affecting our desire for teamplay.

As for Sundays I have 0 say. I unfortunately don't make the sessions and have no right to suggest anything. While I support Gadje I can't go any further than that. The Sunday boys ought to pursue whatever course of action that makes their leisure time enjoyable.

As for H.E. it is my observation that some of the lads still do fly for those points. Let's be clear. If pursuing teamwork cripples lethal fighter pilots during engagement then we have taken a wrong turn somewhere. On the otherhand, mid-air collisions, folks shooting over each other’s shoulders, pilots bagging a kill or two then flying back to base alone still happens and tells me some are not part of the team. If by not publicizing personal stats helps to retrain our thinking just a little it will be worth it IMHO. "What can I do to achieve victory for my flight?" should be on our minds (and it is for a lot of the regular lads). Stats can make this simulation too much of a game, which it is but you know what I mean.

Btw still enjoy the feedback stats give us. However, as Gadje mentioned how does our individual stats illustrate how we are progressing in our teamwork? It doesn't. I liked how that scripted COOP server stuff worked, did you notice how the stats work? Something like everyone on the same team sharing the points (and maybe kills). I think that sort of thing promotes better teamwork. Even FPS can sometimes get it right. I mean capture the flag/defend the flag has a better sense of teamwork. Heck scripted DF servers with limited airplanes might be more productive to teamwork.

Anyway for HE I won't be providing individual stats, at least for the next little while. Rather concentrate on training/learning to get better at being a good fighter/ground attack pilot as a member of a flight. Earned enough imaginary medals and awards that the thrill for me nowadays is to be part of a deadly flight. Just my take on all this. I appreciate others will disagree. That's cool. Just stop shooting over my shoulder mates.

TS!

As someone who prefers teamwork to the solo "every man for himself style" of flying, I would say I like the stats and the ribbons associated with the stats. It gives me something to strive toward. Of course, the goals can always be changed, as Noter pointed out. Perhaps the view was a bit askew when the original stat counters were made. Perhaps instead of kills and sorties flown, or maybe in addition, we have wingmen and flight personel nominate those people for ribbons/medals for teamwork and flight preservation. Start tracking those stats right along side the stats we're already keeping track of. If it is decided at a later date, that one is favored over the other, then perhaps we move toward that style of tracking.

I know the medals and ribbons are merely tabulations of a score, that's why I focused on the ribbons/medals in my post. Not because I think they are any more important than the small chunks o' bandwidth that they are.

If I've completely missed the mark, please ignore this post. But after reading the replies, I thought I would like to have a say.

Scores, medals, and ribbons mean little to me other than a point in time that I did something close to exciting. Especially in this digital world that we "fly" in. There are so few ways to mark that you've been there. The stats/ribbons were one way to do that. There are surely others that are more suited to emphasize teamwork. I'm sure that those ways, if they haven't been highlighted here, could be devined with minimal effort.

From the, "I didn't know there was going to be any math today" file:

Here's a thunk;

it means more work for them whats keepin' score but we could do that fraction thang.

If two mates put some lead into a bandit and he ends up in the choir immortal, then a note should be made of the event and each pilot should be given a ½ kill. This way we could keep the stats and it would still encourage team play within the element ... maybe.


Fal "Download your "00" skins today!" con

My suggestion is to try it. It won't be written in stone. If it doesnt change anything for the better we go back as is. When you guys started playing in cockpit did you say; 'if we do it once its forever'?

Hell I've nothing against stats as such, I use them. Its about how they work in this game and what effect they have on how we fly on Sunday. Its been awhile we have been talking about teamwork and how to better it. Things have gotten a bit better and in some areas much improved but this all goes to hell at the crucial point where teamwork should be most important. At contact.
Its only human nature. Who wants to be 'Wee Jimmy Nae Points' when that bloody points 'reportcard' get shown at the end of the mission
Great for learners that!. So the stats are the carrot for 'POINTSPOINTSPOINTS'. Take the carrot away and maybe we look for new rewards and I'm hoping its teamwork. I might be wrong.

In the meantime if personal stats are important you can keep them yourself, I used to use IL2 wingman, it keeps the flight log. If you want to compare how you are doing against other teammates try taking them on

Believe me I like competition (I'd like us to compete more)but that isn't what Sundays are about......I thought.

we try to make friends with the AI and stop being so bloodthirsty....

We can remain plainly thirsty though

Never been into numbers, and would always prefer some help than a point-scorer beside me (mind you, it's nice to know there are some good shots out there....)

Shame the shared kill thingy isn't built into the game during teamplay or that you don't get points for removing a bandit from the fight by just damaging him....

I like Gadje's suggestion and general attitude towards this point. If it were 'reality' (whatever that is) you could not just bugger-off and leave your squadmate open to the enemy - you'd seriously cover each others' asses.... or get your own kicked when you got back to base...

So for the realists amongst you, this is good advice. For the surrealists, it is just something else to bother your brain.

For me, it is bed time....

Nighty-night!

I can't believe how something so simple could turn so complicated.

Gadje,

Start a poll thread and we'll try to do whatever it says for Sunday ... if the mighty mission-makin' mates are willin'.


F

:FI:TacticalS! wrote:

:FI:Snoop Baron wrote:I agree with you mate.

s!
Snoop

You agree Fernando? You? Ok am I the only one here seeing the irony in all this?

Snoop - "point hound" - Baron

After your first "1,000,000,000", points just don't mean that much, but you wouldn't know that would you



s!
Snoop

I would keep track of the avg number of deaths per mission for the entire team/squadron and strive to keep it as low as possible. That would give you one number to focus on as a team.

Now you still have a stat but it's one that is team focused not individual focused.

It focuses on defense not offense and avoids some of the reckless behavior that kill/point focused stats tend to lead towards.

It would be nice if this option became available in some of the campaign tools as an alternative to (or addition to) the standard stats.

s!
Snoop

Enjoying the discussion. I think some are saying that the way IL-2 awards medals focuses on the wrong thing. Consider the following:

Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC)

The DFC was instituted in 1918 as an award to officers and warrant officers who displayed courage or devotion to duty whilst flying in active operations.

During World War I, a total of approximately 1,100 DFCs were awarded, with 70 first bars and 3 second bars. During World War II, approximately 20,000 DFCs were awarded (the most of any award), with approximately 1,500 first bars and 42 second bars. Second World War DFCs have the year of issue engraved on the reverse of the bottom section of the cross.

Citations are generally available in the London Gazette for the Second World War DFCs. Some of the First World War DFCs also have citations.

Since 1993, this medal can be awarded to all qualifying RAF ranks.

---

Sounds a lot more subjective and teambased then counting kills, eh mates? Most medals from various countries are like this (and certain ones are based on kill counts). Maybe BOB will have more meaningful awards/medals. Must admit that trying to pull this stuff from our log file would be complicated.

TS!