FI Skin download/usage

[:FI:Falcon]

Okay OKAY!

It could have been organized better!

but I'm from N'Awlins.

We do everythng quaintly, if not efficiently.

Yeah, I intended to streamline the organization of files somewhat when we finished at least some of the Axis ac, but this seemed the easiest considering the multiple folders for many skins and the request to only d'l a few of the skins at a time.

Go ahead and shuffle it 'round all you want Gurb. Just try to keep the Default :FI: skins seperate from the personal ones so slow machines, guests and less active members can find the Default skins quickly and easily.


F ... a ... l ... c ... o ... n

[Gurkesaft]

IL-2 TECHIES:

If the server disables skin download, but all the clients already *have* all the custom skins, will everyone be able to see the custom skins?

If so (and I would be surprised if it can't be configured in this way, as every other game is), I propose we run the server in this fashion. If people want to see the custom skins, they can download them. If they don't care or forget one, they will just see the default IL-2 skins. Downloading in game is just ridiculous. Lag-free gameplay is certainly the top priority!

I'm willing to do some tests with my server if anyone with skins wants to get on TS one of these nights and work it out.

Also, WRT the 2GB download: emule with friends networks, or bittorrent

Finally, we could also release a minskin pack that contains only the necessary skins for the coming couple of missions. I'd be happy to assemble and host one of these packs every month or so. If it's just 10 planes, it can't be that large when it's zipped.

-Jack

[Gurkesaft]

Folks!

As you also experienced in yesterday´s sessin the lags we had were huge. Therefore I ask you to download all necessary skins (F4U, F6F and SBD5) for the rest of the Pearl to Japan campaign in order to avoid lags by skin downloads.

Ty for your attention! For a smoother and better gameplay!!!

So much confusion over here. I downloaded the various zip/rar files for the F4U, F6F, and SBD5 from nerb. I found 6 skins in all. There is only one directory for SHD5, so those two are easy to put in, but I haven't a clue which F4U or F6F directory to stick the other four in, since there are three F4U's and two F6F's.

The directory structure on nerb doesn't match the IL2 skins folder. Do I have to make 3 copies of F4U and 2 of F6F?

-Jack

[Gurkesaft]

Okay. I took a stab and assumed you just make a copy of each skin and put it in each of the relevant folders.

Could one of you higher-ups take a look at this archive and tell me if I have my folder structure right, and all the necessary skins? If not, let me know what's wrong so I can update it. If so, I am happy to provide this for n00bs.

http://pooptastic.googlepages.com/FI_skins_Pearl.7z" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-Jack

PS- interesting: I did some tests with 7-zip (http://www.7-zip.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, free, open-source, awesome, handles everything), and it turns out it handles duplicate files perfectly. There is virtually no difference in size between the above archive and the raw archive containing no duplicates. Think about THAT next time you're whomping on a prostitute!

[:FI:Gadje]

Suggestion

How about we just use the FIS default skin for the last three missions on Sunday. Chances are someone (no not I!) might not get all the downloaded skins sorted and warpcity sessions return. Default should be 3 downloads and all should be dandydosey.

That gives time to get the skins sorted for our next campaign whatever that may be. Its not as cool as having yer own skin but better than shooting Zekes going 'sideyways backwards' like


Edit- Tactical HELP! havent U M8's been and done this?

[Gurkesaft]

I'm all for that. I've been testing my skin pack, and it seems to work, the only question being "are they all there"?

I think if the server just turns off the skin downloading, our sideways-flying problems will be solved. We'll probably still be able to see the skins anyway (those that have them).

Just my $0.02.
-Jack

[:FI:Falcon]

What skins go where ...

see this link

http://endlager.net/fis/phpBB2/viewtopi ... sc&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Gurkesaft]

Sorry man, that link isn't for me yet

I'm pretty sure I have them in the right place though, since I can see the FI skins on all the planes I added them to.

-edit-

NOW I see the issue. Not only do you have default FI skins, but you all have your own personal skins too! Sorry it took me so long to figure out what's going on. This is a problem of extraordinary magnitude.

I have hosted above the defaults, and PROBABLY I can host all the defaults with the correct folder structure so n00bs like me need only unzip a file into IL2.

I will look into also packaging the personalized skins and see how 7-zip does with those.

-Jack

[:FI:Falcon]

Thanks jackjuice.

Your technical skill and new-guy perspective might just be the fing we need to make things easier for all.


Falconcentrate

[Gurkesaft]

kick ASS.

I just packed all of the FI defaults AND personalized skins for the three F4U's, the two F6F's and the 2 SPD's with the correct IL-2 folder structure into 20MB. Unpacked, this is >300MB. Those who once doubted the power of 7-zip, please kneel.

I tested them in IL2 and I can see them all now. There's very little difference between them, which is why they pack so well, I wager. You guys put some serious small detail work into these, I have to say. Alas, my Core2 7600GT system is not kickass enough to run the textures on full, so I see a lot of little colored blobs. I also see black-painted numbers behind the HUGE white number IL2 supplies.

Anyway, I'm uploading it to my googlepage...

-Jack

[:FI:TacticalS!]

If I may participate in this discussion too mates.

After our upcoming session in Historic Encounters on February 8 (tentative), I intend to host future sessions again with custom skins. Certainly I appreciate the amount of effort that has been done, and folks really love to fly with their Irish skins.

Many moons ago Noter was kind enough to provide H.E. participants with personalized, custom skins (including nose art). We loved them! It added a really nice aspect to the sessions that I wasn't really expecting.

However, it also resulted at times with some rather poor server performance when anyone showed up without ALL the necessary skins.

See this is the deal folks: You can't just install your OWN skins. That's NO GOOD WHATSOEVER. If that’s all you do you are wasting everyone’s time. No, you must install EVERYONE'S SKINS. YES, ALL OF THEM. Otherwise, the server will spend hours (and hours) trying to deliver these large graphical files to everyone. Hence the reason no one saw any custom skins until the third mission. Transferring skins is a recipe for lag and warping, especially during takeoffs, in COOP missions.

---

A Simple Illustration of being Properly Prepared:

Participants - Heloego, Sneaky_Russian and TacticalS!
Flyable Planes - IL-2 Type 3M and La-5F

What do you need to do BEFORE the session?

- Download the custom skins for ALL THREE folks - Heloego, Sneaky_Russian and TacticalS! for BOTH the IL-2 Type 3M and La-5F planes, PLUS the generic custom skin for each of these planes in case a guest/visitor is playing (who MUST have ALL the skins too). That's 8 custom skins.

- WITHOUT RENAMING any of these files (if you do then it’s buggered!), you place them in the proper skin directories of your IL-2 game install.

- You enable "Skins Downloads" in your game before joining (and the host does the same).

Now the magic happens when all these steps are followed. Miss one and she’s messed up. So what happens? Well, Heloego shows up with his nice :FI: sanctioned custom skin, TS!'s server says, “OK I have that skin and so does Sneaky. I don't need to transfer any files.” Everyone sees the skin right away by retrieving it quickly from their own hard drives. No warping or lag! In a very real sense it is like our :FI: skins were part of the default skins that came with our game, see?

On the other hand, if you are missing anyone’s skins, you rename any of the files, then the evening won’t be as enjoyable as it could have been. If you are unprepared, take the time to setup before joining, or turn off “Skins Download” on your end. I THINK this will prevent the server from dishing out the missing files, but you won’t correctly see the other planes (i.e., custom skins). Not ideal depending on the Icon settings. SO BE PREPARED!

---

Custom Pilot Faces and Noseart

Furthermore, folks I believe our servers will also be compromised if mates insist on using personal pilot faces and noseart (please correct me if I'm wrong here). Sure these files are a lot smaller, but if the host enables skins this stuff also gets bounced around during the session. So please refrain from using anything but the default pilot faces and noseart!

Regards,
TS!

[:FI:TacticalS!]

If the server disables skin download, but all the clients already *have* all the custom skins, will everyone be able to see the custom skins?

Firstly, welcome Jack!

I wish this approach could be considered. Unfortunately, if the host disables "Skins Download" then you will only see your own personal skin. Other planes with custom skins will not be visible to you. At least this is what we experienced when we were first testing a COOP mission with custom skins.

[:FI:TacticalS!]

Suggestion

How about we just use the FIS default skin for the last three missions on Sunday. Chances are someone (no not I!) might not get all the downloaded skins sorted and warp city sessions return. Default should be 3 downloads and all should be dandy dosey.

That gives time to get the skins sorted for our next campaign whatever that may be. Its not as cool as having your own skin but better than shooting Zekes going 'sideways backwards' like


Edit- Tactical HELP! haven’t U M8's been and done this?

As mentioned in my post above, we definitely enjoyed custom skins in the past, but it can be difficult to implement as you boys discovered last week. My advice is not to give up mates, as I think it is worth it in the end.

You need to realize, however, that EVERYONE must be prepared. The day of someone just dropping into the session is GONE. One of the reasons why I stopped hosting with custom skins is because I felt badly when a :FI: member wanted to join H.E. but wasn't prepared, or perhaps worst, I felt badly for those participating when the warping began. It can be frustrating. If we can get past the frustration I believe these skins will offer something special to the sessions.

And yes using 1 custom skin per plane would have been a much easier approach. I think someone suggested it, but, hey I understand how cool having our numbers and stuff is on planes so that's fine too.

TS!

[Gurkesaft]

I have all the skins for the F4U, F6F, and SBD's in one file with the proper heierarchy posted here. If we're going to use all the custom skins, I highly recommend just pointing people to this 20MB download:

http://www.businessfist.com/fi/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We only need these three planes for the Sunday missions, correct? Someone who knows stuff please check.

If the plane selection changes, please just let me know, and I'll post a new archive. As long as the planes only change once in awhile, I should be able to keep up relatively easily.

What a ridiculous design flaw in IL2, by the way. Skin data is completely unimportant compared to "where the planes are and who's shooting" data. I'd like to test skin visibility with one of you guys soon, to make sure there's not another solution. And what about this: If one of our skins changes, there's no way the server could know anyway, and two people could be seeing different custom skins!

-Jack

[:FI:TacticalS!]

What a ridiculous design flaw in IL2, by the way. Skin data is completely unimportant compared to "where the planes are and who's shooting" data. I'd like to test skin visibility with one of you guys soon, to make sure there's not another solution. And what about this: If one of our skins changes, there's no way the server could know anyway, and two people could be seeing different custom skins!

I agree mate. In fact, as I understand it IL-2 agrees in a sense too. See skin transfers to your net cache (if your game doesn’t already have a particular skin) are given a low priority by the game. Hence why the transfers can take hours to complete. Notwithstanding, as the crowd grows, the server starts to fall behind trying to transfer these 1024x1024 bitmap images, while trying to keep everyone informed on what is going on in the game. Btw I believe the original IL-2 game only had 512x512 skins, though I suppose Internet speeds were also slower back then too.

---

In your testing online make sure you have at least 3-4 folks (you might not notice the delay too much with just 1 other fellow). Have someone use a unique custom skin with everyone using the "Skins Download" option. What should happen is that the unique custom skin will not appear; well not for a while anyway (more folks longer the time). If this is a COOP and you're trying a takeoff warping should occur, even with a small group.

I have never been able to find any real, official discussion about this matter. A lot of hosts just don't enable Skin Downloads when hosting COOP/Campaign missions. There must be differences with the game code since Dogfight servers seem to operate much better with custom skins.

Furthermore, while I believe having everyone's custom skins will dramatically improve the server's performance, I'm still not really sure if it can be said that the server is not impacted. Consider the following -

[speculation only] In building a mission one can select a certain custom skin for particular squadrons/planes in the mission. I suppose the game just assumes it’s in your skin directory so it doesn't check (just crashes if its not there - or grabs the default?). With this :FI: skin business, I imagine the server still has to work at verifying everyone has the custom skin, since it wasn't specified in the mission and therefore assumed to be available. [speculation only]

It would indeed be very interesting to try a number of tests to figure all this out. Let me know your findings mate. In particular clear out your net cache and try a mission where everyone has the custom skin. Was anything placed in the cache? Shouldn't be, right? Now you got me wondering!

TS!